18:00 5K off minimal training

shamelessly bumping this up

Assuming you can currently run a 18:05 5k you will most probably reach your goal.

Depends on what you can do already. What's your 5k PB, when was that set? Or other PBs that might be indicative of your recent shape? Also, the four days a week you can run, are they consecutive or spread out?

It is definitely do-able, but it depends on your current ability and you have given no indication of them.

FWIW, you will need a modicum of talent to run sub-18 off 4 hours a week, which is probably no more than 30-35 miles. Unless you've got an extensive training history...

If you're close already, sure. Or if you used to be much faster and have fallen off due to a lack of training. If you're currently running 20:00+, then no, it's not going to happen.

Just do a regular run the first day u can run. 9 miles

A workout the next day that totals up to 7 miles

Regular run of 7 miles the next day

Then do a long run of 12 miles the next day u can run

This is a little 4 day plan.

GL

wiggy,

He said he had a MAXIMUM of 1 hour on any day. If he could run 12 miles in that hour, then he could run MUCH faster than 18:00 for 5k...

It depends on your current 5k training.

Keep in mind. Sometimes, 5k training is actually harder than marathon training.

A crappy marathon isn't better than a fast 5k just because it's a marathon. Anyone can teach themselves to put up with the pain from 26 slow miles.

It depends on your current 5k achievements

Keep in mind. Sometimes, 5k training is actually harder than marathon training.

Depending on how far off you are, it might require just as much effort as your marathon training.

Just do Schul training (Igloi) all four days and then there won't be a problem.

Like the others said, it depends on your current fitness level. If you are in 16:XX shape, then yeah, you'll break 18. 19:50, probably not. I wouldn't expect more than 30 seconds improvement unless you respond well to minimal training. Good luck!

Thanks a lot for the responses.

Regarding my current fitness:

I did a 5K trial about 5 weeks ago on a track (with the running club I just joined), and I did 18:59. The past few intervals I have been doing (the 1K repeats), I was doing them mostly (say 75%) around 3:30 and the rest around 3:40. I have done few tempo runs by my own on the treadmill (no incline), and I did them between 40:30 to 41:00 for 10Ks. I have done few 400 repeats, at around 80 sec.

So based on these, what do you think?

I was able to run 18:06 off of only three runs per week and working around a knee injury. One set of intervals, one tempo and one easy run. It worked for me, hopefully it does for you as well. Good luck!

No problem.Are those four days consecutive? Followed by 3 off days in a row? If so, then you might have a problem. If those four days are staggered, then here is a general guide:Day 1: 15 min warmup, 16x200 (or 150-300m), 15 cooldown.That should be a very fast run, but stay controlled and consistent through each rep.Day 2 (one complete day after day 1): 60 minute progressive tempo run. Start at marathon pace (7:30ish) and work your way down to goal 5K pace by the end.Day 3 (24 hrs after day 2): One hour run with 8x100 strides in the middle or end.Day 4 (1 day later): 10 min warmup 4-6x1200-1600 at goal 5K race pace, with 400m recovery between reps, 10 min cooldown. Take a day off and repeat. The key here is using your off-days as your recovery/easy days. Walk to your errands as much as possible. Use the stairs no elevators. Park on the far side of the parking lot, etc, etc.

ethiopian wrote:

Thanks a lot for the responses.

Regarding my current fitness:

I did a 5K trial about 5 weeks ago on a track (with the running club I just joined), and I did 18:59. The past few intervals I have been doing (the 1K repeats), I was doing them mostly (say 75%) around 3:30 and the rest around 3:40. I have done few tempo runs by my own on the treadmill (no incline), and I did them between 40:30 to 41:00 for 10Ks. I have done few 400 repeats, at around 80 sec.

So based on these, what do you think?

It really depends on "where you are at." Life, always gauging where things are at... where they are going.

Anyway, young bucks take this for granted, but when you get older and fatter and life responsibilities, romance, and saving civilization does not get any easier, you realize what goes into tiers of 5k performance.

Eighteen flat is going to take:

>speed... the kind an athletic young man between 17 and 22 has.

>speed endurance, the kind that will naturally be the territory of said athletic young middle distance runner.

>the Long Skills... aerobic base, lots of experience of medium to long runs, bodily efficiency. A person who has this will likely also have some harmony in the activities of the courses of their days.

--Training difficulties: Weather--

The weather is challenging in a lot of parts of the Western world right now, I can only assume. These blue skies filled with sunshine are hot and packed with cosmic intensity. For an older guy, out of shape and laden with life's lessons, this is challenging. For the young guy, these are days of experience, emotion, great runs and lounging and hopefully finding good love.

--Training difficulties: the Superfilaments of a Man's Existence--

5 months is a lot of time, though and even an older guy can get this done, if that wonderous work of keeping life in order and training is maintained. People are self-directed, so a lot of the time, it's not about the activities but keeping the rest of your life in order so you have the mojo, organization and motivation to do those activities.

--Activities--

Making assumptions, I'm assuming you're an older guy and apparently have been marvelously diligent about logging miles, even if not the fastest. It seems like you are comfortable at a baseline of marathon training, so you'll just be reigning that back and will still be doing it from time to time: easy runs, relaxed runs, recovery runs, long slow runs. Everyone's got a different ratio they need at certain points, but I'd imagine you sprinkle it,

while your new bread and butter will be:

Tempo work

Time to start getting in 3 to 6 mile runs and really enjoying them, enjoying the pace, the stories, the hills, the cross country, the gravel, the asphalt, whatever!

And then, you're going to have to know your age, weight, general physical ability (flexibility, weight strength, balance, etc.) and your middle-distance and sprint ability: mile time trial, 3200/3k race. Where are you at? 5:10? 5:20? 5:40? For a time trial in flats. How are you in terms of 30 second 200s? 32 second 200s?

How are you recovering?

18 flat 5k: a long push. Going out under 5 minutes, and really pushing. Breathing hard, bracing yourself from 1200m-2600m. You can start groaning and whining at 3400-4200m. Bringing it all the way home. I think, ideally, the tools that get this performance done are 5:10 or better track mile in spikes, comfortable ability to do modest number of 200m repeats 32-35 seconds. 2:10 or better 800m condition, ideally. This condition during the training period, not necessarily on race day. During sometime in training, having reached that and then sort of leaving it, means that you can be comfortable recruiting 5:30-5:40 mile pace. Envision the race! Those moments.

And lots of exciting mentally stimulating and never boring tempo runs under your belt, playing around with the range of 6 minute paces, over varied terrain. It's not a simple matter of work but also of scheduling, recovery ability, psychofactors, etc. to string these things together.

There are other ways of doing it. Someone might mention if they have had success breaking it down differently, into 1ks, 2-mile efforts, etc.

Training Ideas

WINTER

Paavo Nurmi long winter walks for the mind-art-spirit-vision

Outdoor Cross Country running, clean snow, steady ground, blue sky, afternoon:

assorted, mix circuits, variegated terrain: 4k, 6k stretches and combinations. Each go, 25 to 30m. Rest and repeat. Perhaps two-a-day, but usually 4 per week and sometimes mix in with day of other easier running on flat surfaces (asphalt bike paths, park grass / weight lifting). Don't run fast for safety reasons. Save the ego for the other seasons.

Forest runs with snowshoes/ground gripping shoes

6:30 pace sustained for safety reasons, equivalent of faster

Cold but dependable dry non icy days:

7:20 pace sustained for cold air reasons, equivalent of faster

I usually mix that cold slow day in, 1:1 or 2:3, with indoor track work.

6:40 pace on the Treadmill, people will be staring at you,

perceiving you envisioning races and change of paces.

Gym regimen: keep your mind sharp for racing

Swimming: if you do this, you've really got your affairs together. highly advanced.

3 by mile on indoor 200m track during lunch/afternoon break.

6:20-5:35 pace. 5 to 2 minute rest.

I liked doing this cause it gives me some pride during the day.

The slower end with more recovery, that upper end of the range, is the easier side and using this to keep one's mind and emotions sharp for that "recruitment" I mentioned before. When you are ready and serious to envision racing, then go faster with less rest. Plus, the intervals allow me time to go get a drink, change a shirt, etc.

STRENGTH

Big Hill repeat/s: dry Fall, dry Spring, dry Summer

on grass or a safe road with good material and views

fast pace, 35-40s, over 200-500 m which feels longer because of incline.

1-4 repeats. Lower end, to keep the mind sharp. Upper end, cause you love Cross Country.

OUTDOORS IN GOOD WEATHER

The Jim Ryun All-Star Challenge~~~

40x400

86 second pace... I can't wrap my head around it. Maybe if I do it 40 times in a row... I'll get the feel! Slaps own face. Note: Gabe Jennings does not like this workout. Keep your mile speed and do half-marathons or 10 and 20 mile runs for spiritual reasons, I think will keep you 5k sharp without destroying your brain and enjoyment with boring track work.

The Emil Zatopek~~~

400m-800m woods circuit

86 second 400m repeats with 600m recovery jogs

Hey, this is not so bad! What a lovely place for running this is. See, I told you nice views and landscape help.

Indoor workout taken to outdoors~~~

You know what you can do the 3 by mile workout, too. Outdoors, on the track.

5 by mile,

5:40-6:00, gets boring on a track but is great on a grass forest circuit.

Getting 6:10-6:30 recruitment usually is most conveniently and enjoyably done with a very good training location... If you have money, get some acres, typically former farms, and get some nature and roads to run out on. Consider Parks and a State's nature stewardship as part of the quality of living index in your financial and retirement planning.

WEATHER TIPS

The Temperate interims (Fall, cold Spring, early Summer)

Sidewalk, asphalt, dirt, gravel, sand, grass, trail.

In the Summer, avoid Thunder,

Wear bugspray and sunscreen when necessary.

Thanks a lot Sloinnorcal!

What pace do you recommend for the 200s? (also what recovery time in between)

In the progressive tempo race, what percentage should I try at 5K pace? (last 1K, last 2K?, etc..).

Since I have the 6*1k intervals during the track meetings with my club every Wednesdays, I think I will take that as my day 4 on your schedule.

And I am assuming the day 3 will be easy/recovery run

so rearranging your schedule, I end up with something like this:

Monday : day 3 (easy)

Wed: day 4 (1000-1200 intervals)

Friday: day 1 (progressive tempo)

Saturday: day 2 (16*200)

1. Speedwork. As fast as you can and still finish them with consistent times. It might take 3 weeks to figure out what that speed is (you know you more than I do). If you started at 37-38, and then adjust from there, then you'd be at a good place.2. Finishing the progressive tempo? I'll pull a malmo and whatever makes you feel kung fu. Again, you're the one doing the running not me. But here is my guess: if you are doing say 6-8x1000 with the club, I bet you can finish off the tempo (if you work into it slowly), with at least a mile at your 1000 pace.3. Since you are only running 4 days a week with 3 scheduled off days, then I would still take advantage of Day 3 and at least run 10 strides. I would even consider pushing the pace on most days. I know that at least I do not feel tired on a 4 day a week schedule.Keep us up-to-date!

ethiopian wrote:

Thanks a lot Sloinnorcal!

What pace do you recommend for the 200s? (also what recovery time in between)

In the progressive tempo race, what percentage should I try at 5K pace? (last 1K, last 2K?, etc..).

Since I have the 6*1k intervals during the track meetings with my club every Wednesdays, I think I will take that as my day 4 on your schedule.

And I am assuming the day 3 will be easy/recovery run

so rearranging your schedule, I end up with something like this:

Monday : day 3 (easy)

Wed: day 4 (1000-1200 intervals)

Friday: day 1 (progressive tempo)

Saturday: day 2 (16*200)

interested in this thread, hope you keep us up to date

You guys are awesome!!

I will think of your feedback thoroughly this weekend and make a plan for at least the coming two months, and will update on a monthly basis (as we have a 5K trial every last Wednesday of the month (next one being on the 25th).

cheers!