Alberto Contador is the MAN

Having the proper team medical director is key in cycling.

he's awesome to watch. I agree. he's an amazing athletebut he's so f*cking doped it makes it hard to appreciate what he's doing sometimes. you realise the tour de france is basically impossible at the speed its covered without PEDsEven the old school guys in the 50's-60's were using heavy amphetamines to complete itdivorce yourself of the drugs and it's entertaining.

Oleg Tinkov wrote:

Seriously, what a badass. Two teams attacked him when he flatted (against traditional protocol) before the major climbs of the day, so he was forced to spot his rivals a minute. Here's what happened:

http://cyclinghub.tv/post?id=829

This guy raced this winter/spring, he is racing the Giro now, he's racing the Tour de France in July. He falls and dislocates his shoulder, flats, gets dropped (see Tour de France 2011, 2013) - nothing makes him quit giving it his all and attacking like a maniac. He does not duck competition, says things like, "sometimes the best defense is a good attack" and then follows through.

conta-window wrote:

Even the old school guys in the 50's-60's were using heavy amphetamines to complete it

divorce yourself of the drugs and it's entertaining.

I like this attitude.

BTW - there ain't no heavy amphetamines unless we talkin bout teh meth

I am not a fan of doping/dopers, but I choose to enjoy sports as entertainment. I am all about making it as difficult as possible to dope and putting rigorous anti-doping measures, punishing dopers, etc. BUT, I'd rather enjoy the show and get fired up to go ride/run (in the case of watching Rupp, etc.) than point at the screen and go, "Doper, doper, doper..."

Either way, unlike some other dopers who were clearly just out of their minds (Lance just breaking everyone's spirit at will), Contador won big early, experienced struggles, has bonked in crucial stages, been simply outclimbed (yesterday, for example), etc. So either he isn't as talented, isn't as talented a "responder", doesn't train as hard (doubtful), sandbags for the sake of appearances (no elite cyclist has that much control of their ego), or just isn't as doped.

yeah, i agree with you about enjoying it. whatever he's on, it's entertaining. the way he rode that mountain with all of those hairpins was incredible. but at some point, we all need to remind ourselves that it's artificial in some ways.they put in such big efforts, it's going to crush their legs a day or two later and they can't just take a huge dose or they'll get caught, so these guys don't recover as well and have a bad stage or two.i'm not saying yell 'doper, doper doper' but just never, for a minute forget that this isn't purehttp://www.outsideonline.com/1924306/drug-testhttp://www.outsideonline.com/1908791/i-couldnt-be-more-positive

Oleg Tinkov wrote:

I am not a fan of doping/dopers, but I choose to enjoy sports as entertainment. I am all about making it as difficult as possible to dope and putting rigorous anti-doping measures, punishing dopers, etc. BUT, I'd rather enjoy the show and get fired up to go ride/run (in the case of watching Rupp, etc.) than point at the screen and go, "Doper, doper, doper..."

Either way, unlike some other dopers who were clearly just out of their minds (Lance just breaking everyone's spirit at will), Contador won big early, experienced struggles, has bonked in crucial stages, been simply outclimbed (yesterday, for example), etc. So either he isn't as talented, isn't as talented a "responder", doesn't train as hard (doubtful), sandbags for the sake of appearances (no elite cyclist has that much control of their ego), or just isn't as doped.

Once money and sports go together, "pure" goes out the door.

The drugs aside, I really dislike Contador but even I have been impressed by him this Giro, though for various reasons he doesn't really have any real competition in this race. His climb yesterday was pretty rad.

Otherwise, he wins like a banker. No soul, no personality. His little "pistolero" trademark reads like it was made up by marketing professionals, and probably it was. It's a problem right now for most of the peloton. No personalities left. Just a bunch of bankers and insurance-men. Nobody's riding with any heart or levity. It's all straight-faced, boring good-sportsmanship, measured-effort algorithms. Nobody wants to tear the other guy's head off. Like Cipo said, why didn't anyone attack Contador on stage 5 when he stopped to do a totally unnecessary bike change? Why don't they go for the jugular now?

I wish another Cipollini would come along. Another Hinault. Another Fignon. Even Armstrong was an exciting personality and not just a lawyer winning bike races like Contador. Froome is the same or worse. These men have no personality, they're just science experiments and PR machines. I find it incredibly vexing.

I like Sagan though. Right now he's the closest thing we have to a major talent who also seems like a person. His pinching the ass of the podium girl a couple years ago was classic. I'd love to see Contador get some minor illness which prevents him from starting the Tour, and Sagan get bumped up to Tinkoff's GC candidate.

I would start by agreeing with those that say I just assume all top cyclists are doping so that I can watch and still get entertainment.

Contador's ability to accelerate in the middle of a climb is absolutely incredible. He is fun to watch.

Interesting that you have a totally different view of Contador. I view him as being most characterized by his panache, attacking, and perseverance, all of which I find compelling. Some examples:

Bruyneel tells Contador not to attack on this climb in the 2009 Tour, as Lance was ahead of him in the standings. Everyone was terrified of Lance...except Contador. Only Contador had the cojones to receive instructions not to attack, stare down Lance (notorious for his own staring down of opponents), attack him, and demolish him:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibVr481vCIk&list=PLlTNvYgq5M4lpkwMGKp7purv3CTqg1D3I&index=2

In 2011, he had a crash and caught behind another crash, plus was weak from a very hard Giro. He was getting his ass handed to him, but did he fold like Solinsky when bumped by a 120# slip of a man or like Porte in this year's Giro? No, he attacked, stage after stage (of course, it was futile, but that's beside the point, or maybe it is the point):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u87SkcF4Ksg

At the 2012 Vuelta, he was struggling to regain his form (maybe because he had to stop doping?), and was getting dropped by Purito and Valverde on every mountain top finish. There was no way he was going to win with the normal tactics (similar to how just about every major race in track is tactical), so he launched an unthinkable solo attack from 51km out, which is pretty much unheard of (like if Rupp soloed to a Diamond League 10k title by attacking on lap 14).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAvU4vKvi2A

Also, he's the only one with the balls to attempt the Giro-Tour double. He tried in 2011 and failed, but here he is again.

Oleg Tinkov wrote:

Interesting that you have a totally different view of Contador. I view him as being most characterized by his panache, attacking, and perseverance, all of which I find compelling.

I guess I mean off the bike. He's an impressive rider, one can't deny that. But there is something so clinical and scientific about him. There's no heart, nothing human. He wins like a robot, or a congressman. You never see him grimace. You never see him leave it all on the road or go full welly, drooling on himself and fire in his eyes. You never see him collapse after giving it everything (like Sagan or Alaphillipe last week on Baldy) or simply out of emotion (Fignon losing by 8 seconds in Paris). You never hear him trash talk his rivals. It all comes off as so calculated, it was always hard but not TOO hard, his opponents were always good, he wishes them the best, he waves to the crowd, he smiles, he goes back to the bus. He just seems so robotic. He never seems surprised or happy when he wins. Even when he crashed two weeks ago and hurt his shoulder, there was no emotion.

Also, I don't like these new superstar types of rider we have these days who don't race the classics. He's not a complete racer because he doesn't do track, he doesn't do one-days.

I think he's the only one with the stones to go for the double because he's the only one in this generation with even a remote chance of pulling it off. Froome is way too made of glass to attempt it. Quintana isn't strong enough. Nibali isn't strong enough. Who else is there? It's just a matter of this being a sort of rut-period for cycling in general. But there's hope. Like said, I like Sagan. I like Degenkolb. I like Alaphillipe. There are some young guys with both heart and talent, and who don't come off like robots.

It's more than just Contador of course. The above applies for most of the peloton today. Hell it's more than just cycling. There's just not much panache and personality in sport anymore. Everyone is a politically correct science experiment. Don't do anything to ruffle the sponsor. Don't say anything. Stay on message. Be nice. Don't show pain. Thank everyone. Compliment your opponent. Hug at the end of it. Make it look easy. Post something positive on instagram. I find it all so boring and unfortunate. Sport is meant to be man's surrogate for war and battle. Now days it's like watching a bunch of politicians.

frogs wrote:

I'd love to see Contador get some minor illness which prevents him from starting the Tour, and Sagan get bumped up to Tinkoff's GC candidate.

Sagan for GC at the tour? You have no idea.

Contador is a jet and he's currently showing it again, punishing Astana for their unsportsmanlike tactics the other day.

OK, I understand where you're coming for. There was almost a feud between Froome and Contador but it devolved into a buddy flick. I wonder if they all saw how Lance's overbearing personality basically led to his downfall (everyone wanted to see him taken down).

I disagree about him not leaving it all out there. I think he can't help himself; he almost always leaves it all out there. Today, for example. He should NOT be attacking. He doesn't need to attack, this will hurt his chances in the Tour, but here he goes. Why? Because he's a killer. I wish we had an American runner with his desire and will.

http://img.vavel.com/alberto-8583874776.jpg

http://cadenaser00.epimg.net/ser/imagenes/2012/09/05/deportes/1346801290_740215_0000000000_noticia_normal.jpg

What's demoralizing is reading these things and fans just accepting the sport and doping. Where is the line drawn? Who can you root for and actually believe anymore? I've drawn the conclusion that it can't go past the pro conti level, and if it does; they're not winning anything in the pro tour.

I follow a few previous runners who have made it to the professional level in cycling. Those are the guys I root for, and sadly; without doping, I wonder if they could ever win something big.

You don't know wrote:

Sagan for GC at the tour? You have no idea.

I don't say it would be ideal or that he'd have much of a chance. I'd still like to see it, though. What would be the alternative? Contador gets mono and can't start the Tour. Who captains Tinkoff then? Kreuziger? Basso? Do Tinkoff just pull out of the race for lacking their golden boy? Or do they put Sagan up as leader after his win at California and see what happens?

Otherwise I can't argue against Contador being the scion of his generation. I just can't get excited about him personally. He's too ice-cold for me. I like some hysterics in my athlete. The Badger was a perfect example, but guys like that are rare. I know these guys today suffer, but it's all too PC now I think. I'd love to see race radios banned, support cars banned, guys fixing their own flats, no bike changes, etc. No-one else is offended by that little Camelback drink cart that pulls up alongside them now? Ridiculous! In five years they'll be able to order a custom smoothie and get a massage right there in a breakaway.

Albutero Clentador has come off as a Snidely Whiplash-style villain to me ever since Chaingate a few years ago (and of course we all know a huge part of what we're seeing is not natural), yet I'm still mesmerized by him when he's in top form and dancing away from pursuers while climbing a mountain road. His climb of the Verbier in 2009 was incredible. With a VAM of over 1,850 (hard to determine it exactly since there is dispute about where the climb actually starts and what the exact elevation gain is), it was the highest VAM ever recorded in a TdF climb. His W/kg was estimated to be 6.77 - inhuman (and that means likely it was literally impossible clean, but still awe inspiring to watch).

I'd like to see those guys try these Grand Tours A) clean, of course, and B) on 1950s fixies. Hah! Then we'd see who are the toughest SOBs out there. Speaking of old school, I wish everybody had to attempt the hour record with the same setup Eddy Merckx used (but at sea level). It might be unfair to make them train for months with that kind of bike to prepare for a single time trial and still never be as comfortable with it as Merckx was after an entire career with zero aero gubbins, but somehow it just doesn't mean as much when the hour record rules keep changing and there's not a valid standard for comparison between today's guys and the '70s guys.

The original poster forgot his very first Giro win where Contador was hanging out on the beach with his girlfriend and not even preparing for a grand tour until two or three weeks before the race and still won. (This with three former Giro winners in the field I think?)

Clearly the best stage racer of his generation and if you set aside the clenbuteral beef (pun intended) or else decide it's that no really worse than Merckx's failed drug test. then he's absolutely one of the top five of all time. (Indurain, Hinault and Anquetil rounding out the quintet.)

What's his 5k pr?

kdsalajslf;ajsf wrote:

conta-window wrote:

Even the old school guys in the 50's-60's were using heavy amphetamines to complete it

divorce yourself of the drugs and it's entertaining.

I like this attitude.

BTW - there ain't no heavy amphetamines unless we talkin bout teh meth

Yes, they literally doped with meth while riding. It killed some of them. It was normal and legal until 1965.

Good Times Guido Bontempi wrote:

...and if you set aside the clenbuteral beef (pun intended) or else decide it's that no really worse than Merckx's failed drug test. then he's absolutely one of the top five of all time. (Indurain, Hinault and Anquetil rounding out the quintet.)

You're insane. Merckx doesn't deserve the insult you do against him to put Contador's name in the same sentence, even on a running forum. Top five of all time? Where's Coppi? Contador is a one-trick nancy compared against any of the legends you name there, and many you don't. Absolutely no comparison warranted and never will be. Contador: never world champion, no spring classics, no hour record. Contador doesn't even approach Armstrong on the GOAT list.

I say again I can't believe you'd leave Coppi off top five all time, but somehow Bertie gets in. He's lucky to be the best of a soft generation. Induration enjoyed same luck.