I heard this interesting coincidence in the Maton saga:
"Michelle Dekkers won the NCAA Cross-Country but was originally from South Africa. She had moved up to Bend, from Texas, just so that her daughter Ashley could be coached by Jim McClatchie. Ashley who won the 1500 also won the 800m and is headed for a scholarship at University of Oregon in the autumn."
http://www.scottishdistancerunninghistory.co.uk/Jim%20McLatchie.htm
Occupation: Retired - 35 years in the computer industry
Personal Bests: Mile: 4:07
Age: 73
Yup, a really, really old fart who can't stand someone with a faster mile PR than he had.
Coach with an ego... wrote:
Occupation: Retired - 35 years in the computer industry
Personal Bests: Mile: 4:07
Age: 73
Yup, a really, really old fart who can't stand someone with a faster mile PR than he had.
Really? I suggest you try reading this:
http://highschoolsports.oregonlive.com/news/article/5531474896179029154/summit-distance-star-matthew-maton-talks-separation-from-team-season-plans/It tells you all you need to know. Maton puts himself about the team as shown by the following two examples.
1) He skipped out on the team to run Foot Lockers.
article wrote:
According to Maton, tension had been building between him and McLatchie since his junior cross country season, when his decision to run in the Foot Locker Cross Country Championships instead of joining his teammates at the Nike Cross Nationals Northwest Regional meet met with McLatchie’s disapproval.
Maton and his mother, Michelle, met with Turnbull and other school officials on the Monday after spring break to address the situation.
2) He skipped out on practice to go pick up his car from a dealership.
article wrote:
According to Maton, the breakup came from a situation that occurred on the Friday before spring break, the day after Maton had run the 800 at a meet in Prineville.
Maton said that the team had an optional practice that day, preceded by a 20-minute team warmup. Maton, in a pinch for time to retrieve his car from a dealership, did not participate in the warmup and practice. When he returned to the school in his car that day, he said, he ran into Turnbull in a back parking lot.
“He pulled up to me in his car and rolled down the window and he sounded very angry,” Maton said. “He couldn’t believe that I would do such a thing to skip a team warmup. I told him that I didn’t really know what to say, I was just trying to save time. And then he told me that he would like it if I no longer represented Summit.
So this Maton fellow is complete douche in addition to being an age-cheat, huh? He and Lukas would get along splendidly.
LOL... the optional workout was evidently "mandatory." Yup, coach with a massive, fragile ego.
Those saying that Maton is a jerk or not a team player or whatever, based on his running Footlocker, are morons.
Those saying the coach/coaches at Summit are evil or jealous or out of line, are morons.
If you are really concerned about this alleged drama with Maton leaving the team, you are a high schooler, and an immature one at that.
McClatchie should be fired for trying to influence Maton's decisions after the state meet. That is a clear violation of OSAA rules. Turnbull is obviously a control freak. Some coaches can't handle kids having any decision making skills on their own. Every coach like that should be fired immediately. Coaches are supposed to be teaching kids independence as they head out into adulthood, not shaming it.
college coach wrote:
Coach with an ego... wrote:Occupation: Retired - 35 years in the computer industry
Personal Bests: Mile: 4:07
Age: 73
Yup, a really, really old fart who can't stand someone with a faster mile PR than he had.
Really? I suggest you try reading this:
http://highschoolsports.oregonlive.com/news/article/5531474896179029154/summit-distance-star-matthew-maton-talks-separation-from-team-season-plans/It tells you all you need to know. Maton puts himself about the team as shown by the following two examples.
1) He skipped out on the team to run Foot Lockers.
article wrote:
According to Maton, tension had been building between him and McLatchie since his junior cross country season, when his decision to run in the Foot Locker Cross Country Championships instead of joining his teammates at the Nike Cross Nationals Northwest Regional meet met with McLatchie’s disapproval.
Maton and his mother, Michelle, met with Turnbull and other school officials on the Monday after spring break to address the situation.
2) He skipped out on practice to go pick up his car from a dealership.
article wrote:
According to Maton, the breakup came from a situation that occurred on the Friday before spring break, the day after Maton had run the 800 at a meet in Prineville.
Maton said that the team had an optional practice that day, preceded by a 20-minute team warmup. Maton, in a pinch for time to retrieve his car from a dealership, did not participate in the warmup and practice. When he returned to the school in his car that day, he said, he ran into Turnbull in a back parking lot.
“He pulled up to me in his car and rolled down the window and he sounded very angry,” Maton said. “He couldn’t believe that I would do such a thing to skip a team warmup. I told him that I didn’t really know what to say, I was just trying to save time. And then he told me that he would like it if I no longer represented Summit.
Oh, and to the idiocy of calling Maton an "age cheat"...
Once again read the rules. If an athlete is 18 years old on September first of their senior year, they are legally eligible. To cheat you have to break the rules, not be well within them.
Ma and Pa McClatchie wrote:
I heard this interesting coincidence in the Maton saga:
"Michelle Dekkers won the NCAA Cross-Country but was originally from South Africa. She had moved up to Bend, from Texas, just so that her daughter Ashley could be coached by Jim McClatchie. Ashley who won the 1500 also won the 800m and is headed for a scholarship at University of Oregon in the autumn."
http://www.scottishdistancerunninghistory.co.uk/Jim%20McLatchie.htm
Millenials have no real perspective about how tough life used to be. Read:
"It's hard to believe that coming from a family of eight (5 boys, three girls) and growing up in a one room house with no electricity or running water that I managed to achieve what I did. Everyone's dream of course is the Olympics - I didn't make it, but the consolation was great. I travelled the world, met some interesting people, and an education that money can't buy".
As I posted in another thread, check out the flotrack after dark podcast. I think that is what they call them. Interesting phone interview with Maton.
He discusses why he didn't want to run at NXN.
I'm paraphrasing etc but the gist was. His sophomore year he had a horrible experience, (I can't remember if fell, or what, I think it was a mud bowl that year). His junior year he saw that all the top guys in the country were going to footlocker so he wanted to go run against them.
As others have said, after State there is no summit cross country team, OSAA has rules about that. I think this would be defined more as a club sport. Even if he had run this past year and won they wouldn't have been on the podium.
He also outlines his perspective on his falling out with the coaches.
Interestingly enough it sounds like Maton is well liked by many of the top HS runners and considers himself friends with many of them.
Coach with an ego... wrote:
LOL... the optional workout was evidently "mandatory." Yup, coach with a massive, fragile ego.
I agree.
That coach is an idiot.
Maton did the right thing to get away from that place.
McLatchie did NOT kick Maton off the team. It was the head coach.
Popful Mail wrote:
So this Maton fellow is complete douche in addition to being an age-cheat, huh? He and Lukas would get along splendidly.
Verzbicas graduated at 18, Maton is within age limits to compete. Nuff said.
Fire 'em all wrote:
McClatchie should be fired for trying to influence Maton's decisions after the state meet. That is a clear violation of OSAA rules.
Turnbull is obviously a control freak. Some coaches can't handle kids having any decision making skills on their own. Every coach like that should be fired immediately. Coaches are supposed to be teaching kids independence as they head out into adulthood, not shaming it.
Counter points:
McClatchie: Part of a coach's job is to establish a team culture within the program. Part of that team culture at Summit is probably "We train together, we race together, and we support eachother as we all strive to be the best we can be." While Maton and his teammates both 'supported' eachother in some way in their post-season split, they didn't race together, they may or may not have trained together, and they didn't support eachother directly (Maton wasn't at NXN-NW or NXN, while his teammates weren't at FLW or FLN). In other words, the post-season split damaged the team's unity. Why would you think it's a bad thing that McClatchie wanted his team to stay united? Furthermore, McClatchie didn't penalize Maton for his decision, so why in the world do you think he be fired despite all the above? Your statement implies that you think McClatchie should be fired simply because he had a difference of opinion with Maton - that doesn't seem rational to me.
Turnbull: While some coaches might call a practice on a day when school gets out early leading into Spring Break an "optional" day, they usually mean that you won't be penalized if you have a good reason to not be there (e.g. you are not going to be in town). As Maton was in town that day, and simply chose to not participate, it is reasonable that Maton should have been penalized in some way. While kicking him off the team on that incident alone may or may not have been the right call, you do have some semblance of a point, however there is a lot about the situation we don't know - for example, was this an isolated incident or an example of his behavior? Did he talk with his coaches before hand about needing to miss practice? Could he have picked up his car at a different time (earlier in the day, or on another day, perhaps)? Was there something about the conversation that isn't reported that might have made the situation worse? We don't know the whole story, so while Turnbull's rationale is less clear, versus the fact that he's the one that ultimately penalized Maton for his behavior in the end, we can't really make such a blanket statement as "[he's] obviously a control freak and should be fired" despite his actions being more questionable than McClatchie's. Perhaps kicking Maton off the team WAS the right move, we don't know (kids can't get a pass simply because they are talented athletes - if you want to talk about teaching bad messages to kids, that is a pretty important one to not mess up as everyone has to take responsibility for themselves and their actions regardless of who they are). Based on what's reported, it would seem like a lesser punishment such as holding him out of a meet would be more fair, but maybe there is something that we just don't know about which justifies the decision Turnbull made.
Oh? wrote:
Fire 'em all wrote:McClatchie should be fired for trying to influence Maton's decisions after the state meet. That is a clear violation of OSAA rules.
Turnbull is obviously a control freak. Some coaches can't handle kids having any decision making skills on their own. Every coach like that should be fired immediately. Coaches are supposed to be teaching kids independence as they head out into adulthood, not shaming it.
Counter points:
McClatchie: Part of a coach's job is to establish a team culture within the program. Part of that team culture at Summit is probably "We train together, we race together, and we support eachother as we all strive to be the best we can be." While Maton and his teammates both 'supported' eachother in some way in their post-season split, they didn't race together, they may or may not have trained together, and they didn't support eachother directly (Maton wasn't at NXN-NW or NXN, while his teammates weren't at FLW or FLN). In other words, the post-season split damaged the team's unity. Why would you think it's a bad thing that McClatchie wanted his team to stay united? Furthermore, McClatchie didn't penalize Maton for his decision, so why in the world do you think he be fired despite all the above? Your statement implies that you think McClatchie should be fired simply because he had a difference of opinion with Maton - that doesn't seem rational to me.
Turnbull: While some coaches might call a practice on a day when school gets out early leading into Spring Break an "optional" day, they usually mean that you won't be penalized if you have a good reason to not be there (e.g. you are not going to be in town). As Maton was in town that day, and simply chose to not participate, it is reasonable that Maton should have been penalized in some way. While kicking him off the team on that incident alone may or may not have been the right call, you do have some semblance of a point, however there is a lot about the situation we don't know - for example, was this an isolated incident or an example of his behavior? Did he talk with his coaches before hand about needing to miss practice? Could he have picked up his car at a different time (earlier in the day, or on another day, perhaps)? Was there something about the conversation that isn't reported that might have made the situation worse? We don't know the whole story, so while Turnbull's rationale is less clear, versus the fact that he's the one that ultimately penalized Maton for his behavior in the end, we can't really make such a blanket statement as "[he's] obviously a control freak and should be fired" despite his actions being more questionable than McClatchie's. Perhaps kicking Maton off the team WAS the right move, we don't know (kids can't get a pass simply because they are talented athletes - if you want to talk about teaching bad messages to kids, that is a pretty important one to not mess up as everyone has to take responsibility for themselves and their actions regardless of who they are). Based on what's reported, it would seem like a lesser punishment such as holding him out of a meet would be more fair, but maybe there is something that we just don't know about which justifies the decision Turnbull made.
Wow, finally a reasonable voice. I don't know the entire story, but all the other clowns that have quickly jumped to a conclusion should take a page from this guys (or gals) book.
I don't believe ignoring facts to make a case is "reasonable;" I think it is manipulation.
McLatchie violated OSAA rules in having anything to do with the NXN trip and further violated them in trying to pressure Maton to run. Post state is hands off in Oregon...100%. If anyone should have been cut loose, it should have been McLatchie.
Turnbull called an "optional" practice and then flipped when his star athlete set a bad example - in his eyes - by not coming. (With one heck of an excuse BTW.) I am a high school coach and I would let a kid miss a non-optional practice to get their car fixed, The problem is not that Maton wasn't treated differently because he was a start, it is because he was treated differently. Other kids on that team missed practice that day. Only Maton was told he would have to sign a contract to continue with the team. (BTW- in spite of what Turnbull thinks is fancy word play, Maton was kicked off the team. You can't be in a position where you have to sign something to get back on the team, unless you have been removed first.)
Turnbull failed to follow his word. Optional means you don't have to do it. Being required to be at optional workouts because you are the fastest is dumb move by the coach. The coach should have been specific that there were two sets of rules for optional workouts. The coach trying to fix his error by forcing only one athlete to sign a contract indicates that the coach should be fired. That person should be teaching teenagers about anything.
I think that coaches tend to pay extra close attention to their X factor athletes. When coaches know that everyone on the team is looking up to the standout, they try to turn them into a puppet in an effort to mold the team, whether they realize it or not. And its extremely frustrating because anything you do or say as a stud like Maton is gonna be amplified to an extreme, causing coaches (especially control freaks) to lash out at them for making their own decisions because they think its gonna ultimately lead to the team undermining their authority.
Surely there are a lot of factors to this that we don't fully understand or are even aware of, but its no coincidence that the 3rd fastest runner in history is having conflicts with his control freak coach. Those 2 just aren't going to mix well, even if Maton is perfectly humble (which he is from what I understand). Likewise, even if the coach is fairly reasonable, there's bound to be friction between them as the coach is put in a difficult position to have the team's best interest in mind while also having to provide specialized, much faster paced and rapidly growing training. And I think the contract is childish and pointless. Forcing Maton to sign a contract implies that the coach has some sort of leverage over him with control of who runs and who doesn't. However, the coach doesn't realize that he needs Maton much, much more than Maton will ever need him. Since leaving, he's broken GALEN RUPP'S state record in the 1500 and became the 3rd fastest high school miler in national history.
(McLatchie violated OSAA rules in having anything to do with the NXN trip and further violated them in trying to pressure Maton to run. Post state is hands off in Oregon...100%. If anyone should have been cut loose, it should have been McLatchie.)
Above is off base, as I believe the team that raced in Boise is a club not school affiliated - Central Oregon Track Club. In reality he doesn't have to coach anyone after the State Champs and if he does, then he can decide whom he coaches.
still running wrote:
(McLatchie violated OSAA rules in having anything to do with the NXN trip and further violated them in trying to pressure Maton to run. Post state is hands off in Oregon...100%. If anyone should have been cut loose, it should have been McLatchie.)
Above is off base, as I believe the team that raced in Boise is a club not school affiliated - Central Oregon Track Club. In reality he doesn't have to coach anyone after the State Champs and if he does, then he can decide whom he coaches.
NXN is a high school team race that is technically listed as a club race to avoid the many different state athletic association rules. But the NXN rules require that all of the members be eligible to run for the same HS team. They were not running as the USATF club known as Central Oregon Running Klub.
I've known teams and individuals that have participated and can assure you that teams do not approach this as an optional post season event. Most coaches and teams that participate in the NXN regional and national events have the meets on their calends as a continuation of the championship season and not a spontaneous choice to keep going after state. So I can see where this caused friction for Maton and Coach McClatchie. They were counting on Maton's participation and he chose to go his own way.
That's his choice to make and if McClatchie pressures him in any way then he was in violation of OSAA rules.