So what exactly were Lydiards 50 meter sprints exactly?

They were referred to as 'wind sprinting' and they were done to sharpen up coming up to a race, used to get used to changing up the pace and puffing hard. These weren't long sessions, only 5-7 laps of the track or so.

ryanballinger wrote:

They were referred to as 'wind sprinting' and they were done to sharpen up coming up to a race, used to get used to changing up the pace and puffing hard. These weren't long sessions, only 5-7 laps of the track or so.

Were they all out intensity?

From Lydiard’s training diaries in the run up to the Tokyo Olympics:

At the end of March and early April, Snell was becoming jaded and feeling his races.

It meant a complete conditioning period was necessary, so starting from April 18th, he averaged 100 miles weekly until June 28th

He then did the hill work schedule which I advocate, from June 29th until August 9th, averaging

near 90 miles weekly.

On August 10th, he started track training which was very difficult without an all-weather track in winter.

The schedule as carried out is as follows:

Each morning he jogged about 5 miles on a golf course and road.

August

10th - 20 times 220 Av 27.45

11th - 3 miles - 14.47.6

12th - 660 - 1m27s 100yds 11s times 2

13th - 3mile - (50yd dashes)

14th - 6 times 220 - Av 26.5

15th - 20 times 440 Av 61

16th - 22 miles Waiatarua -2 hours 22 min

17th - 20 times 220 - Av 27.8

18th - 3 miles - 14.35

19th - 5 times 880 Av 2.13

20-22nd - injured leg, hard track - no training.

23rd - 22 miles - 2h 33 min

24th - 5 mile jog

25th - 27th leg still sore - no training.

28th 4 times 440 stride-outs

29th - 6 mile jog

30th - 22 miles - 2hr 23 min

31st 220 stride-outs.

September

1st - 6 times 880 Av 2m10s

2nd - 6 times 440 - 58s

3rd - 1 mile - half effort - 1 mile three quarter effort

4th - 3 times 220 fast

5th 880 - cold wet conditions - 2m2s

6th - 22 miles easy

7th - 1 mile (50y dashes)

8th - three quarter mile - 880 in 1.56 and final 440 as he felt

9th - 440 - 55s - 4 times 100yds - full

10th - 2 times 1 mile - half effort.

11th - 3 times 220 - full effort

12th - 10 times 440 - av 58.5

13th - Long run

14th - 10 miles morning - 4 times 150yds - 6 times 50yds

15th - 2 times 880 - windy and wet - 2m2s and 2m 1.7

16th - 10 miles morning - 3 miles - 14m 12s

17th - 6 times 440 - 58s

18th - 3 times 220 all out.

19th - three quarter mile - 3m 0.5s

20th - 20 mile - half effort

21st - One hour jog

22nd - 6 times 220 stride outs

23rd - One hour jog

24th - Flew to Sydney - 6 times 220 stride outs

25th - 660 - 1m19s

26th - Flew Japan

(jogged most mornings in Japan for 1 hour)

17th - the hour jog

28th - 20 times 220 stride outs

29th - 1 mile of 50yd dashes.

30th - three quarter mile - 2m.56s

October

1st - 2 hour run - strong and even

2nd - 4 times 440

3rd - 6 times 880 - half effort - av 2m5s

4th - 1 mile - 4m2s

5th - 10 times 220 stride outs

6th - Sprint training over 150yds

7th - 800mts fast - 1.47.1

8th - 1 hour jog

9th - 880 in 50yd dashes

10th - 1 hour jog

11th - 3 times 220 full

12th - 1 hour jog

13th - half an hour jog

14th - 800mt heat - 1m49s

15th - 800mt semi - 1m46.9

16th - 800mt final - 1m45.1

17th - 1500mt heat - 3m46.6

18th - 1 hour jog

19th - 1500mt semi - 3.38.8

20th - 1 hour jog

21st - 1500mt final - 3.38.1

yes.

No Drums, No Bugles

or whatever his book is called...that any good?

Binks wrote:

From Lydiard’s training diaries in the run up to the Tokyo Olympics:

"Half of the published accounts of Lydiard training weren’t what I actually did." - Peter Snell

A.L wrote:

Many sources say that Lydiard use to make his athletes sprint 50 meters then float for 50 meters what was the purpose of the workout and at what pace were the 50 meters sprint , were they all out?

Yes, the intention was that the 50s were at the best speed the athlete could produce.

The term "float" confuses some people. I've used driving a car as an analogy:

a sprint is flooring the gas pedal; a jog is moving to a slower speed by actively using the brake; a float is taking your foot off the gas without touching the brake.

The idea is use a low volume of work to get to a high level of lactate--which, if you're doing this exercise correctly (really "flooring it" on the sprints and not touching the brake on the floats), you surely will.

It can take a session or two to get the hang of this exercise, esp. because you want to maintain relaxation/control throughout: no clenched jaw or locked elbows. If you do maintain that, you'll find that your speed doesn't drop much on the floats, although your effort is much reduced.

so in a way its sort of HIIT right?

The sprints should be close to "all out", but your sprint pace should of course not slow down during the workout.

Lydiard gave an example of 5 laps done in around 7 minutes. That means about 7s sprinting for 50m and 14s, i.e. twice as much, for the float. Floating at your easy pace, not jogging, can be a starting point.

Lydiard scheduled less reps for slower runners. Start with 6 and build up to 12-16 for seniors. Keep in mind that recovery from sprinting is very individual.

lydiard got something right wrote:

The sprints should be close to "all out", but your sprint pace should of course not slow down during the workout.

Lydiard gave an example of 5 laps done in around 7 minutes. That means about 7s sprinting for 50m and 14s, i.e. twice as much, for the float. Floating at your easy pace, not jogging, can be a starting point.

Lydiard scheduled less reps for slower runners. Start with 6 and build up to 12-16 for seniors. Keep in mind that recovery from sprinting is very individual.

alright

Lydiard also recommended 50m sprints and starting practice. This really gets the fast twitch firing.

A.L wrote:

Many sources say that Lydiard use to make his athletes sprint 50 meters then float for 50 meters what was the purpose of the workout and at what pace were the 50 meters sprint , were they all out?

Yes they were all out

Cerutty used 50 meter sprints, and Lydiard got them from him.

By the way, Binks, thanks very much for posting Snell's (pre-)Olympic training!

Kinda depends on what "in a way" and "sort of" mean. There is "high intensity" and it does resemble interval training, so "in a way, sort of" is not wrong.But I would be reluctant to compare anything to HIIT, mainly for the lack of definition of the recoveries (effort and duration). Some examples:- Tabata protocol is 20 seconds "high intensity" with 10 seconds passive rest- Typical HIIT advice can vary (e.g. from http://www.muscleandfitness.com/workouts/workout-tips/10-minute-treadmill-blast?page=2):Beginner: 20 seconds of work 40 seconds recovery x 10 *Intermediate: 30 seconds of work 30 seconds of recovery x 10 *Advanced: 40 seconds of work 20 seconds of recovery x 10 *With HIIT training, the recovery is usually passive (you are meant to do nothing in between the high intensity bouts).Lydiards 50m windsprints are characterized by:1) All out sprinting for 50m2) Highly active recovery (floating) for 50mIn spite of what is written above, I think the 14s for the "recovery 50m" is probably too slow -- these are NOT supposed to be "run one, jog one" -- I think the recovery is still meant to be fast. I never timed one, but seems more like 7s sprint/11s float is closer to what is meant.(But then again, this is my interpretation from the Lydiard books I've read -- so I could be wrong.)In any case, even though there is the high intensity of all out sprints, this is still meant to be a highly aerobic workout.

A.L wrote:

so in a way its sort of HIIT right?

Nice reply

right boy

rekrunner wrote:

In any case, even though there is the high intensity of all out sprints, this is still meant to be a highly aerobic workout.

This is terribly misleading. Do this right and you'll develop tons of lactate. The whole point of the exercise is that you develop this with a fairly low total volume of work, compared to the classic 20 x 400 that Lydiard's guys did.

Compare this to true "alactic" sprint workouts, in which you sprint for just a few seconds then take a *complete* recovery before the next sprint.

This is sort of off topic and maybe a stupid question but is it true that sprinters use an abbreviated version of this for speed development. Something like sprint 50, float 50, sprint 50, full rest