Marathon pace help

Start out slow, and then taper off from there. Start with 300 kcal/hour and adjust as necessary.

3 weeks out, do the following workout:

5k easy warmup

3x 8k (first rep MP +5 sec/km, second rep MP, third rep MP -5 sec/km)

2-3 min jog between reps

Report back

I'd put you in the 2:55 range

OK, I will give that workout a try, will wait and run it next tuesday (in lieu of my normal tempo run). Will report back.

Ran a 20 km threshold yesterday, ended up being 4:02 min/km. Felt tiring. I could certainly run 30 km at that pace, but I am very hesitant about sustaining that over a marathon.

Start by running the first mile in 4:38. :)

That workout should replace a long run and a tempo run. It looks like you are thinking MP should be around 4:08-4:15 per km (2:55-3:00)?

I think you're on track for a good marathon. As long as you run smart, you should break 3 hours and probably do so by at least a couple minutes. I would aim for 2:59 pace through 35k and push hard after that if still feel great there.

But don't listen to your friends telling you to run 2:50 pace. These workouts don't indicate 2:50 shape to me, and the fact that you already ran one marathon aiming for 3 hours and ran 3:18 doesn't bode well for you trying to overreach. Be smart about it, don't be greedy, and you will have a good race. The last 10k of marathon courses are filled with people who imploded after their friends told them they were capable of some faster time.

How can you be 4 weeks out from a marathon and not know what your target MP will be?

Sub-3 adviser wrote:

I think you're on track for a good marathon. As long as you run smart, you should break 3 hours and probably do so by at least a couple minutes. I would aim for 2:59 pace through 35k and push hard after that if still feel great there.

But don't listen to your friends telling you to run 2:50 pace. These workouts don't indicate 2:50 shape to me, and the fact that you already ran one marathon aiming for 3 hours and ran 3:18 doesn't bode well for you trying to overreach. Be smart about it, don't be greedy, and you will have a good race. The last 10k of marathon courses are filled with people who imploded after their friends told them they were capable of some faster time.

This is correct. Hover in the vicinity of 3:00 pace and listen to your body, breathing, etc... One of the biggest mistakes marathoners make is trying to maintain a pace and ignoring the signs that it is too fast. By the time you realize the pace is too fast, it will be too late and you will give back much more time than you gained. Get to mile 18 feeling GOOD.

litterbug wrote:

How can you be 4 weeks out from a marathon and not know what your target MP will be?

Because I am terribly inexperienced. And training feels like it is going better than expected.

I will run that workout tomorrow *stipe. Sounds like I should aim for around 4:15 min/km as MP. Will report back.

How did your workout go?

I didn't run it! Work intervened and I had to work through the time I was going to run it over. I did have time for a solid threshold run though, so I ran a half marathon at what is usually my threshold run pace. Finished the half in 1:24, felt really good, ran at a steady pace, not strained at all. Gives me a lot of confidence to run a good fast half actually (considering my previous half PR was 1:30, from 2 years ago).

I have -rescheduled the 8x3 workout for tomorrow. I have been running easy the past two days and if I am feeling recovered I will give it a try tomorrow. If I am feeling sort of sluggish I was going to push it back to the weekend. I figure I should only try this one when I am recovered. Will report back!

I wouldn't do it within 2 and a half weeks of your marathon. Can't recall if you are 3 weeks out this weekend (a great time for it) or 2 weeks out? If you are 2 weeks out, then dial the distance back back a little.

It is still 3 weeks out. Felt good today so I went for it. Overall better than I expected.

5 km warm up, really easy (5:00 min/km+).

First rep as follows min/km (4:15,4:24,4:15,4:28,4:25,4:17,4:11,4:22) average 4:20 min/km

Had a really hard time staying on pace, was bouncing fast and slow. Felt easy.

Second rep as follows min/km (4:22,4:05,4:21,4:20,4:23, 4:07, 4:08, 4:16) average 4:14 min/km

Still bouncing around with pace. Felt relaxed near the end.

Third rep as follows min/km (4:11,4:12,4:10, 4:12, 4:08, 4:15, 4:09,4:03, 3:58)

Much mroe consistent. Felt hard at the 4 km point, had to push to the end.

This is faster and a little shorter than I usually run a “long run”, but did not feel that much harder. One key difference is I run all my long runs early in the morning (wake up, eat cereal, run). This was done mid-day after some good meals. So maybe that helps.

was your last rep 9km?

what break did you take between the reps? i've never done that workout but 24k total at MP is pretty solid. looks like you targeted a MP of 2:58ish marathon pace, about 4:15/km. if this workout was easy, i'd consider aiming for 4:12s (2:57). that's aggressive enough that you have a chance at 2:56/2:55 if you feel good at 30km, but not so fast that you'll fade badly.

also, you should be doing ALL your long runs in the morning, close to the time of your race. that's just as important as any workout you'll do from here til the race. figure out your breakfast/bathroom schedule.

I strongly suggest that you convert your pace calculations to English units and use min/mile as your baseline. If you do that, then the 3:00 magic mark is in the bag.

I have similar times and just went 2:57 this past weekend on a tough course.

To give you more of an idea I'll copy your original formatting with my times inserted.

Long runs:

-Mostly easy though some I would finish faster

-Marathon paced runs were important in my cycle. My longest was 20 miles w/10 miles at marathon pace

-Longest long run was 22 miles

Tempo Runs/Threshold:

-Mine were in the 3:48-3:55 range

Easy runs:

-Typically 4:45 to 5:00/km range

PRs:

-10 km: two weeks out I ran a 10k tempo in 37:41

-Half: 1:22:19 from October

I think on a flatter course I could've gone 2:55, so I think if you aim for 2:57-8 and feel good at 32km, then you can push it.

reed wrote:

was your last rep 9km?

Oops, that last rep was not a full km, I was just blindly typing from my watch. The 8th km was 4:03, that 3:58 was just the pace for the last 67 meters lol.

1 min break between reps.

In English units I guess the first would be in 6:56 min/m, second in 6:46 min/m, and third in 6:40 min/m.

Sounds like I should be aiming for a 2:57 pace. I just want to safely get under 3 hours so that sounds reasonable, gives me a little room for a positive split if things take a turn for the worse.

Thanks for all the advice! Will report back after the race.