Predict my all-out 1600 time

5:19...sounds like you just ran a perfectly paced one. Maybe 5:17 on a better day.

It is hard to run an 800 with better splits than 68, 71.

Your training sounds good. Did you run XC last fall?

If you ran XC last fall, you will run faster in your next couple of 1600s, maybe as fast as 5:10.

If you didn't run XC, your season is already 4 weeks old and from about here you could either improve a lot to near 5:00 or you could plateau and run a bunch of 1600s right around 5:20.

As a general rule, if you run even splits in the 1600, you were plenty competitive until you got to the last 200. During that last 200 you could have run 2 or 3 seconds faster, like the other poster said, 5:17 or so.

Now that race is over. Move on to the next one. Try another 3200, rather than just running 3 meets with the 4x800 and/or 1600. If you can, run your last 1600 of the season without running an 800 first.

That's pretty fast for a girl.

I'd say focus on the 800 this season, try and shave off a few more seconds. 2:15/2:16 would be good for a frosh.

Go ham in the summer training smart, run xc, go ham in the winter training smart. Run 20-30 seconds faster in the 1600 next season like a boss.

Boogieboo

I did XC last fall but I was total shit. I only ran four races and my 5k PR was 21:43, 4k 17:06, 2-mile 14:21. I ran some over the winter, but I got some pretty bad shin splints around January, so my longest week was only 34 miles.

The splits in the 1600 I ran last week are uncertain. Nobody was actually timing them as far as I know. I may have heard my coach call "5:12 pace" as I crossed the 800m mark but a teammate told me later that the splits seemed closer together than that. I miscounted laps and ran the third too fast because I thought it was the last. Incredibly stupid mistake, but I managed to hold my place through the last 400m undoubtedly at a slower pace.

With three meets to go, two of them JV medal meets, I may have to choose between running another 1600 or giving the 32 another go. My teammates and coach seem to think that I can run a 5:05 mile and a 2:12 800, and I have a teammate who runs at my pace or slower on workouts but recently ran a 5:01. Maybe another 1600 is the best choice by the end of the season.

Sounds like you've run a lot of 800s, so shaving off another 7 seconds will be next to impossible this season. It also doesn't sound like you're doing the proper workouts to be particularly successful at 3200, so I'd stick with the 1600. Go out in like 2:30 and then try to hang on for a 5:10, which should be doable.

Boogieboo wrote:

That's pretty fast for a girl.

I'd say focus on the 800 this season, try and shave off a few more seconds. 2:15/2:16 would be good for a frosh.

Go ham in the summer training smart, run xc, go ham in the winter training smart. Run 20-30 seconds faster in the 1600 next season like a boss.

Boogieboo

How old are you 12?

Doclove wrote:

How old are you 12?

15. Male.

tracknoob wrote:

Meet 1: 800m, 2:31. Did not feel fast enough.

Meet 2: 800, 2:26 negative split (74, 71). Still felt kinda slow.

Meet 3: 4x800 split, 2:23. 3200m, 12:04. Paced it very poorly and finished with too much energy left, I felt I could run it faster.

Meet 4: 4x800 split, 2:24. Went out too slow. Open 800, 2:19. Went out with a 33 and split 68, 71. Felt very fast.

Meet 5: 1600m, 5:19. Legs were heavy and warmup was kinda long (2 miles). Splits were about even.

I run about 35 mpw with weekly 4-8x200/400 workouts (monday/tuesday), races (thursday), and 8 mile long runs at 7:30 pace (saturday). I feel I have been underperforming all season due to a lack of competitiveness, mental focus, etc. What could be my REAL 1600 time if I competed better?

What do you do on Wed/Fri/Sun?

If your saturday run is meant to be an easy pace, I would back off a bit on the pace. During track workouts keep a 400m pace of about 75", don't go faster than that.

The 2 mile warmup is fine. Don't sweat it.

5 min and single digits should be achievable.

Prelin wrote:

What do you do on Wed/Fri/Sun?

If your saturday run is meant to be an easy pace, I would back off a bit on the pace. During track workouts keep a 400m pace of about 75", don't go faster than that.

The 2 mile warmup is fine. Don't sweat it.

5 min and single digits should be achievable.

Wednesday is a 2 or 3 mile shakedown run at about 8:00. Friday is usually an easy 4 at the same pace to recover from the meet. Sunday is kind of the same as Friday, just usually around 7:45 or so.

75 seems kinda slow for a 400, unless you're talking about mile-pace work. Then it's just a little fast. Last time I did speed work I ran 3x(2x200+400) with the 200s at 32 and the 400s at 68.

As for the long run pace, I feel just fine running 7:40s for 8 miles. I would probably want to go 10 if I dialed it back to an easy 8:00. The Saturday run isn't meant to be super easy, I always intend it to be a bit of an endurance workout for the legs.

As for 5:00 and sub 2:10 being "achievable," I'm a bit skeptical. I have a major problem with going out too slow, which I somewhat resolved in my last 800 when I went out with a 33, but it's still there. I have a friend who runs low 5s but always stays about where I am on workouts. Makes you wonder what I could do if I could get a better mindset going into the race...

Boogieboo wrote:

Bunghole. Go fvck yourself.

I also go out too slow a lot! But I recently broke 5 off of decently similar training to yours. I'm in the bright orange spiked, i may be leading at 800m but the winner and 2nd place kid negative split every race. I went 1:15, 1:16 high, 1:17, 1:10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxDIecU3c6k&feature=youtu.be

Don't be skeptical.

The picture of your training is a bit more clear now. I now see that your saturday is not meant to be an easy/recovery day. With that in mind, your saturday or sunday run seems slow. As a suggestion, I would make your saturday run involve some threshold work: 2 miles @ 7'30", 4 miles @ 6'20", 2 miles @ 7'30" and that is meant to be a continuous run (no stopping).

75" is not slow for training. This is based on your 800m time. A workout that looks like this 6x200m, 6x400m, 6x200m at a 75" pace (so about 38" for the 200m) with enough recovery to repeat at suggested pace would be better than running your 400s at 68" and 200s at 32". The goal of this would be to improve your running efficiency. Running faster than this throws that aspect of training out the window. Work on your stride. Focus on what you are doing. This workout will also save you for better training and racing later on in the week.

Prelin wrote:

The picture of your training is a bit more clear now. I now see that your saturday is not meant to be an easy/recovery day. With that in mind, your saturday or sunday run seems slow. As a suggestion, I would make your saturday run involve some threshold work: 2 miles @ 7'30", 4 miles @ 6'20", 2 miles @ 7'30" and that is meant to be a continuous run (no stopping).

I may try that this week. 6:20 would be slightly fast for 4 miles, 6:30-6:40 would probably be ideal. Most of my longer runs I just try to pace evenly, but this mid-run tempo thing sounds interesting.

Btw, what's your background? Coach? College runner?

tracknoob wrote:

Prelin wrote:

The picture of your training is a bit more clear now. I now see that your saturday is not meant to be an easy/recovery day. With that in mind, your saturday or sunday run seems slow. As a suggestion, I would make your saturday run involve some threshold work: 2 miles @ 7'30", 4 miles @ 6'20", 2 miles @ 7'30" and that is meant to be a continuous run (no stopping).

I may try that this week. 6:20 would be slightly fast for 4 miles, 6:30-6:40 would probably be ideal. Most of my longer runs I just try to pace evenly, but this mid-run tempo thing sounds interesting.

Btw, what's your background? Coach? College runner?

No, 6'20"... If you have to break it up so that it is 2E,1T,1E,2T,2E. E being around 7'30" but do not let your T be faster than 6'20" or slower than 6'30". You want to improve your lactate threshold.

Prelin wrote:

tracknoob wrote:

I may try that this week. 6:20 would be slightly fast for 4 miles, 6:30-6:40 would probably be ideal. Most of my longer runs I just try to pace evenly, but this mid-run tempo thing sounds interesting.

Btw, what's your background? Coach? College runner?

No, 6'20"... If you have to break it up so that it is 2E,1T,1E,2T,2E. E being around 7'30" but do not let your T be faster than 6'20" or slower than 6'30". You want to improve your lactate threshold.

I agree that he needs to improve LT , However OP listed his 5 K PR = 7:00

min.mi.pace , so maybe better to start @ 7:15 min. mi. X 3 mi. and work his way down. He is able to run 5:19 off of his 800 races. His training is really more suited for a 400/800 and I'm being generous on the 800.

tracknoob wrote:

HS frosh, first track season with five meets so far and three to go.

Meet 1: 800m, 2:31. Did not feel fast enough.

Meet 2: 800, 2:26 negative split (74, 71). Still felt kinda slow.

Meet 3: 4x800 split, 2:23. 3200m, 12:04. Paced it very poorly and finished with too much energy left, I felt I could run it faster.

Meet 4: 4x800 split, 2:24. Went out too slow. Open 800, 2:19. Went out with a 33 and split 68, 71. Felt very fast.

Meet 5: 1600m, 5:19. Legs were heavy and warmup was kinda long (2 miles). Splits were about even.

I run about 35 mpw with weekly 4-8x200/400 workouts (monday/tuesday), races (thursday), and 8 mile long runs at 7:30 pace (saturday). I feel I have been underperforming all season due to a lack of competitiveness, mental focus, etc. What could be my REAL 1600 time if I competed better?

USUALLY, unless you are a person who for some reason really hasn't cared to this point, what you run is VERY close to what your fitness will allow. Competitiveness and focus don't come into play too much for a 5:19 miler. Some racing strategy and inexperience with the distance would have more of an affect.

So far, your 800 time and 1600 time are really about right compared to each other...the 1600 time perhaps could be about 3 seconds faster. I'm going to say that with newness to running and likely improved fitness as you continue to train, that 5:11 is in the cards for you.

Next year, enter the season with a bigger base and get down into the 4:40s.

Flagpole wrote:

USUALLY, unless you are a person who for some reason really hasn't cared to this point, what you run is VERY close to what your fitness will allow. Competitiveness and focus don't come into play too much for a 5:19 miler. Some racing strategy and inexperience with the distance would have more of an affect.

Next year, enter the season with a bigger base and get down into the 4:40s.

I honestly think my fitness could allow me to run a faster time. Like I mentioned earlier, the 5:19 was my first and only mile, and my legs were not feeling up to par. I had run a very lengthy long interval workout two days prior, and the day before was only 1 easy mile. Inexperience and slow legs were what led to the slow time more than anything else.

for what it's worth wrote:

Prelin wrote:

No, 6'20"... If you have to break it up so that it is 2E,1T,1E,2T,2E. E being around 7'30" but do not let your T be faster than 6'20" or slower than 6'30". You want to improve your lactate threshold.

I agree that he needs to improve LT , However OP listed his 5 K PR = 7:00

min.mi.pace , so maybe better to start @ 7:15 min. mi. X 3 mi. and work his way down. He is able to run 5:19 off of his 800 races. His training is really more suited for a 400/800 and I'm being generous on the 800.

I overlooked the 5K PR....

More thoughts and comments to follow later...

Prelin wrote:

I overlooked the 5K PR....

More thoughts and comments to follow later...

Yeah, about that pathetic 5k time...

That was last October. I was slow and logging 15-20 mile weeks. My form was terrible, heelstriking every step and running with really big strides. My cadence was like 100 steps/minute, maybe even less. I sucked really bad. But I trained more over the winter, improved my form, increased my mileage, and built a better aerobic base. I'm much faster now and could probably run a sub 20:00.