Serious Marathon Training / Mileage / Goal Question

How old are you?

Why is your 5k PB so much worse than your 10 mile?

Was it 5k XC?

Was the 10 mile short/downhill?

Why are you running a marathon now?

After 4 months off, you should spend a year getting back into 55:00 shape for 10 miles and then start your 26 weeks.

If you won't listen to me and are happiest just running 2:50ish about 26 weeks from now, try this good old Letsrun post from "last day" in 2005. But don't say I didn't warn you if you hit the wall.

"If you're like me, you may find out that you prefer this type of training to your previous methods. I have been following the same basic schedule for three years now:

M-50 minutes with 7 miles @ aerobic threshold (5:45 pace)

T-50 easy plus striders

W-50 minutes with 3 x 1 mile at 12k pace (90 second rest)

R-50 minutes easy plus striders

F-50 minutes easy plus striders

St-2 hours medium with striders

Sn-50 minutes easy plus striders

Throw in one or two races per month and you've got a nice recipe.

On this training, I have run 15:12 5k, 31:30 10k, and a 2:28 marathon---not PRs, but within 2.5%. That is, I'm training at 50% of my former training mileage, but racing at 97.5% of my personal bests. I actually like running again too."

Thank you for the advice.

How old are you?

30

Why is your 5k PB so much worse than your 10 mile?

The 10 mile was slightly downhill?

Why are you running a marathon now?

I want to finally face my fears and want a new goal for this year. Lots of time to go back to the fast stuff (I know that is reverse logic but it's a personal decision at this point).

If the 10 mile course was legit, sub 3 should be no problem on that training. Sub 2:50 might be a little tougher if you max out in the 50s mpw. I would recommend bumping the mileage up with one long interval session per week and one long run. My 5k, 10k PRs are about the same and I have a marathon PR at 2:40 and generally run them sub 2:50. Although I have done a lot of mileage over a long period of time.

I just comfortably ran 2:55 at London, I maxed out at 60 miles/week and my PBs are a fair bit slower than yours (17:48 5K, 1:22:30 half). I think your goals are pretty conservative really.

Thanks. FYI: besides the layoff recently I had 7 years of consistent 40-60mpw (peak of 80 for about a month once) training under my belt.

Is it more important to get longer/more intervals in during the week?

or

Is it more important to focus on long runs (at both 'Easy' and Marathon pace)?

I think it would be most important just to get in more miles consistently. My times at the shorter distances were slower than yours (16:30, 35:30, 60:00,) but I ran mid 2:40s pretty consistently. I did peak at 80-100mpw, though, with much of the cycle done in 60-80 range.

You will be lucky to break 3 given your light training load. Some recommend speed work for marathons but if I were you I would run a lot of steady miles and race frequently, without structured work outs. I'd also lose the time goal.

re-read first sentence. Just run to finish and also to feel comfortable late. Run some 20S and see how that goes. 26 2 is different.

So what is the ideal amount of mileage to run a 2:45:00 - 2:59:59 marathon?

I would try to hit a very consistent 60-70 during the cycle, peak at higher, perhaps 80 for 1-3 weeks, depending on how well your body handles it. I would de-emphasize the individual workouts a bit, especially if you're feeling fragile or tired. They're really not as important for the marathon as just running a lot. Besides, your times at the shorter distances indicate you don't need to focus on speed at all.

To give you some idea, like I said, all of my times at the shorter distances were slower than yours, but at a few years older (ages 37-40,) I ran 2:49, 2:48, 2:44, 2:45, and 2:43 on very consistent cycles of 70-80 mpw, with peaks at 80-100. I did all kinds of individual workouts to experiment during those cycles, forward periodization, reverse periodization, no speedwork at all, emphasis on long runs, de-emphasis on long runs, etc. None of it really seemed to matter a whole lot compared to the mileage.

runnerwhoprofesses wrote:

You will be lucky to break 3 given your light training load. Some recommend speed work for marathons but if I were you I would run a lot of steady miles and race frequently, without structured work outs. I'd also lose the time goal.

re-read first sentence. Just run to finish and also to feel comfortable late. Run some 20S and see how that goes. 26 2 is different.

This is the worst marathon advice I've ever heard. You can easily break 3 hours with the natural talent you have based on prior race times at 50-60 miles per week. You just need to pick some marathon program and stick to it.

I did exactly your progression when I started marathoning 5 years ago. I was running 17:30 for 5K on around 50 mpw. I started a marathon specific program maxed out at 60 MPW and ran 2:57 with a huge negative split (I paced for a 3:00). My 2nd time out I upped the mileage on the same program, maxing out at 70 mpw and ran 2:48. I've done a few others with mileage in the 60s range and ran between 2:53 and 2:56.

If you train right, the marathon isn't really that hard and it doesn't have to be such an enigma that people make it out to be.

Thank you. This is what I was thinking going into this. I kind of had the 2:50-2:54 range picked as the most natural end-goal with sub 2:50 on 'best-day-ever' and 2:55-3:00 with non-ideal conditions. Too bad there's not a way I can let you all know how it goes in the end.

runnerwhoprofesses wrote:

You will be lucky to break 3 given your light training load. Some recommend speed work for marathons but if I were you I would run a lot of steady miles and race frequently, without structured work outs. I'd also lose the time goal.

re-read first sentence. Just run to finish and also to feel comfortable late. Run some 20S and see how that goes. 26 2 is different.

This is the worst marathon advice I've ever heard. You can easily break 3 hours with the natural talent you have based on prior race times at 50-60 miles per week. You just need to pick some marathon program and stick to it.

I did exactly your progression when I started marathoning 5 years ago. I was running 17:30 for 5K on around 50 mpw. I started a marathon specific program maxed out at 60 MPW and ran 2:57 with a huge negative split (I paced for a 3:00). My 2nd time out I upped the mileage on the same program, maxing out at 70 mpw and ran 2:48. I've done a few others with mileage in the 60s range and ran between 2:53 and 2:56.

If you train right, the marathon isn't really that hard and it doesn't have to be such an enigma that people make it out to be.[/quote]

I'm basically in the same shape as you right now. I ran 2:54 in Boston last year and 2:58 this year. I was on pace to run 2:48 last week but the wind and rain slowed me from miles 17-26. I basically ran 18-20 miles every Sunday at (6:45-7:30 pace) track work on Tuesday (8-10 miles) and hill work on Thursday (8-12 miles). If you can run 21-22:00 for 5K splits you will go under 3:00 without any problems.