elite americans don't know how to train for a marathon

have you considered Meb and Ritz are just better than the other guys?

longruners wrote:

NOTE to elites. Do your long run nice and easy every week for 2hrs 30min.

DONT smash them with marathon simulations

How will they compete with the Kenyans and Ethiopians with your training methods?

longruners wrote:

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NOTE to elites. Do your long run nice and easy every week for 2hrs 30min.

DONT smash them with marathon simulations

But this is exactly the training E. Africans are using to run way faster than US runners.

I do not think that there is anything systemically wrong with US elite runner's training. I think we see a lot of bonks because the many of "best of the rest' (i.e. not Meb/Ritz) are gunning for a sub 2:10 but are not quite ready to do it in difficult conditions. Meb and Ritz were definitely in sub 2:10 shape but finished much slower due to wind and lots of pace variation from surges by other racers. Now, take a guy like Eggleston, Arciniaga and Teg who would need a flat course and excellent conditions to push 2:10 and set them off on a difficult course with a head wind shooting for 2:10, and you get a 64/73 split for Arciniaga, 65/69 split for Eggleston and 64/69 for Teg.

I'm your typical 18 min lets run 5ker. (seriously, I would be thrilled to go sub 18 right now)

but I was listening to Nate Jenkins podcast yesterday with Jay Johnson. The dude has some serious training chops. He speaks lots about specific marathon training and while he does do easy long runs, he also does some workouts that are so hard they would blow your mind.

Nate Jenkins is the kind of racer who has trained himself way right up to his potential. Not like Ritzenheim or Teg.

Long hard runs are the key to marathoning. It just makes sense.

Train your body to run at your marathon goal pace a long time. You can't do this by doing 800m repeats ad nauseum. Long tempos are the key to marathoning.

http://www.coachjayjohnson.com/

I thought American runners were not as good as the world (except for US sprinters) because they don't train hard enough, don't want it as bad. Now your saying they train too hard. Maybe just not as smart as the average Kenyan?

longruners wrote:

Same old story - American men, maybe besides Meb and Ritz, destroy themselves in training and don't save that juice for race day. If they get to 20-22 on pace then bonk that at least means they didn't leave it in training.

How many times have american men started to struggle at 15-18 miles or sooner. Thats a sign that they were not on the upswing in their training the week leading in to their race. It happens every marathon .

NOTE to elites. Do your long run nice and easy every week for 2hrs 30min.

DONT smash them with marathon simulations

Whoah! Brilliant idea! Glad you have it all figured out and know better than all of the best American runners (except for possibly Meb and Ritz who maybe understand this business as well as you).

xcskier66 wrote:

I'm your typical 18 min lets run 5ker. (seriously, I would be thrilled to go sub 18 right now)

but I was listening to Nate Jenkins podcast yesterday with Jay Johnson. The dude has some serious training chops. He speaks lots about specific marathon training and while he does do easy long runs, he also does some workouts that are so hard they would blow your mind.

Nate Jenkins is the kind of racer who has trained himself way right up to his potential. Not like Ritzenheim or Teg.

Long hard runs are the key to marathoning. It just makes sense.

Train your body to run at your marathon goal pace a long time. You can't do this by doing 800m repeats ad nauseum. Long tempos are the key to marathoning.

http://www.coachjayjohnson.com/

Say what? I don't know if Ritz trains like this anymore, but check out the 20-mile progression run from his training under Hudson. It used to be a staple of his marathon prep:

The main point here is RItz has stopped over training ...and has far as Boston, figured out the trials matter more..

As long as Ritz resists training errors whether Salazar or Hudson style he's a favorite to make the US team.

Americans need to start running exactly 6.2 miles to and from school every day like every Kenyan and Ethiopian elite runner ever.

Make Hanson the national coach. They don't always have the most talented athletes but they usually seem to be the best prepared. Our top athletes seem to show up unprepared. Shalane had a chance to win yesterday and wasn't ready to take advantage. Amy Cragg was worse.

The way the race unfolded, it looks like most of the world's elite marathoners don't know how to train for the marathon. After all, at least in the men's race, they all ran slower the second half of the race. All but one or two of them folded over the last few miles when the pace picked up. I see this happen time and again, even in races like the Olympics and World Marathon Majors. You might get one or two guys who are still running really fast at the end, but for the most part, these guys come staggering in like they're, uh, finishing a marathon or something.

And have you ever noticed that it's the guys who are running fastest over the last few miles who always seem to win? That provides further evidence that everybody else trained wrong. What the other guys need to do is train differently, and start training to run a marathon at a hard pace with a really fast last few miles. THAT is how you should train. All these guys who train to run a positive split, and to bonk the last few miles, will never amount to anything. If your coach tells you to run the first 18 miles at sub 5:00 pace, and then gradually fall apart over the last 8 miles, you tell him, "No way coach - that's not how marathons are won!"

I say we put the OP in charge of training all elite US marathoners.

I was just going to ask how they managed to get to be elite if they don't know how to train. But I think you've got a better idea so I defer.

Problem is Kids wrote:

Americans need to start running exactly 6.2 miles to and from school every day like every Kenyan and Ethiopian elite runner ever.

Americans need to start running in large training groups every day like every Kenyan and Ethiopian elite runner ever.