What do you think the current top "pure" marathoners could run in an open 10k on the track?

Yeah, I'd say right around 27:00 (give 15 seconds). Wanjiru ran 26:41, but that was a couple years before he focused on the marathon.

I'd say 27:10, 27:15. Show some respect for the specialists!

esdf wrote:

Yeah, I'd say right around 27:00 (give 15 seconds). Wanjiru ran 26:41, but that was a couple years before he focused on the marathon.

Wanjiru's run was worth more than that if I recall correctly. He was chasing Bekele and died to a 26:41. Probably in 26:30 shape AS A JUNIOR.

100% Slow Twitch wrote:Guys like Wilson Kipsang, Emmanuel Mutai, Kimetto, any other "never set foot on a track" kind of guys I may have missed

i commend you sir

cognition+

Looking at some of the All Athletics profiles for these guys have 10000m PB's but they're all from races in Kenya at altitude and are also a bit outdated

exactly

worthless times

Basically I'm wondering what kind of 10k time these guys would be able to throw down on the track, at sea level while in marathon PB shape

a ? i have asked for dozen+ years with diatribe+ back as answer

I figure Kimetto has got to be sub 27 minutes considering he averaged 29:08 for 10k 4 times in a row en-route to his marathon WR.

try more like

26'10 - 26'15

off just M training

posters here will talk nonsense that faster & faster M's can be run with same intrinsic 10k

i remember decade+ ago when we saw 1st 2"05+

- 10k ability enthused by masses back then :

no better than 27'00 was his likely

then we had 2"04+

- 10k ability enthused by masses then :

no better than 27'00 was his likely

then we had 2"03+

- 10k ability enthused by masses back then :

no better than 27'00 was his likely

now we have 2"02+

- 10k ability enthused by masses now :

no better than 27'00 is his likely

do we have to get down to 2"00+ before we have to say,

"what the fuuck

he may have quicker than intrinsic 27'00" !!!!???

esdf wrote:Yeah, I'd say right around 27:00 (give 15 seconds). Wanjiru ran 26:41, but that was a couple years before he focused on the marathon.

sammy was at 26'16 pace at 6k behind kennster & paid for it with 26'41 final

he shouda run 26'30 / 26'35 that day at even pace

he was 18y at the time & looked a young 18y

he looked about 15 or 16y in vid shot

it is impossible for a 15 - 18y ole kid to get slower at 10k when they bust the 1/2M wr soon after

times crushing geb's / tergat's best 1/2 M

he ran 1 of them solo unlike zedster's wr

do you think sammy was doing serious speedwork for that 10k ???

52.43 wrote:I'd say 27:10, 27:15. Show some respect for the specialists!

the most inept statement possible !!!

why on earth woud anyone give any respect to a "specialist" ever ???

did mo give any respect to cacho/cram/ovett/coe when he destroyed their 1500 euro records ???

did bolt, a 200 guy, show any respect to 100m when he took his previous season pb down from 10.03 to next year :

9.76

9.72wr

9.69wr

???

Daniels would have 2:03:00 equal to 26:39; I'm thinking you are way off base with this 26:10-26:15 projection.

No way that Kimetto can run 26:10-15. He trained to run 4:40/M for the marathon. He is the best ever at that. Why does that mean that he can run 4:12/M for 10k?

No you'd be incorrect. wrote:Daniels would have 2:03:00 equal to 26:39; I'm thinking you are way off base with this 26:10-26:15 projection

err...

what part of :

2"05+ = 27'00+

2"04+ = 27'00+

2"03+ = 27'00+

2"02+ = 27'00+

...

2"00+ = 27'00+

when to alter ???

utter nonsense

you can't decry a step-down distance without solid proof

27'00 was bandied about when 2"05+ was wr

use your neurone

we are down to 2"02+

use that neurone & apply :

27'00 = 2"05'38

to

2"02'57 ?

or do you think khanoochi did "better" M training than dennis ???

nonsense

i doubt he has a clue what mile pace he trains at

he trains at what it takes to run 2"02+

impress me :

what the fuuck is 4'40/M training for M ???

nominally

you clearly have no clue, let alone watched geoffrey in new york '11

who on earth woud ask that inept a ?

roads in kenya are in km

kenyans don't think detritus about pace/M

they think time for 10k & work down...

ventolin^3 wrote:

i remember decade+ ago when we saw 1st 2"05+

- 10k ability enthused by masses back then :

no better than 27'00 was his likely

then we had 2"04+

- 10k ability enthused by masses then :

no better than 27'00 was his likely

then we had 2"03+

- 10k ability enthused by masses back then :

no better than 27'00 was his likely

now we have 2"02+

- 10k ability enthused by masses now :

no better than 27'00 is his likely

do we have to get down to 2"00+ before we have to say,

"what the fuuck

he may have quicker than intrinsic 27'00" !!!!???

BOOM! Ventolin has spoken

ventolin^3 wrote:

No you'd be incorrect. wrote:Daniels would have 2:03:00 equal to 26:39; I'm thinking you are way off base with this 26:10-26:15 projection

err...

what part of :

2"05+ = 27'00+

2"04+ = 27'00+

2"03+ = 27'00+

2"02+ = 27'00+

...

2"00+ = 27'00+

when to alter ???

err...

What part of making up a straw man (2:05 -> 27:00, 2:04 -> 27:00...) do you not understand? You have made up a straw man argument that says that "everyone said a 2:05 guy could not run under 27:00, then everyone said that a 2:04 guy could not run under 27:00, then..."

Newsflash for you pal, No this is not what knowledgeable followers of the sport have been saying. And if you'd take your head out of your ass for a few moments you'd have probably heard better what people have been saying.

ventolin^3 wrote:

27'00 was bandied about when 2"05+ was wr

use your neurone

we are down to 2"02+

use that neurone & apply :

27'00 = 2"05'38

to

2"02'57 ?

2:05:38 / 2:02:57 = 1.02182

1.02182 / 27 = 26:25.4

You know what would be fun to see? I, too, would like to see someone give Emmanuel Mutai US$100,000 appearance fee, US$50,000 performance bonus for breaking 27:00, and US$25,000 for every 5 seconds under 27 in a track 10K in a DL race. With one condition:1- Mutai must train for the 10K as if he was training for a marathon (volume, specificity, workouts, taper, etc)I would really like to see the degree of specificity of training when turned on its head. Does it add 1% to performance? 3%? 1/2%?

100% Slow Twitch wrote:

Basically I'm wondering what kind of 10k time these guys would be able to throw down on the track, at sea level while in marathon PB shape.

I figure Kimetto has got to be sub 27 minutes considering he averaged 29:08 for 10k 4 times in a row en-route to his marathon WR.

Ventolin^3 brings up a valid point. It is not unreasonable to think that the 2:04 guys are significantly faster than the 2:07 guys over the 10K.

Most of the latter are 27:30 guys at their peak. I think guys like Kimetto etc

can all run sub-27:00 (some significantly faster), not when then they are

peaking for the marathon. but if they pursued a career on the track.

Forgot to say that the suggestion Kimetto could go faster than KB obivously is

off shell.

nonsense

back years ago when khanoochi ran 2"05+wr, no one back then whatsoever had any problem with him having ~ 27-flat abilty that day

i assume you saw the race & saw how he destroyed tergat/geb

you think they woud argue with him having 27-flat that day ???

nonsense

i said anyone running 2"05 woud expect probably expect 27-flat intrinsic 10k ability that day

the evolution in M times since then is not about just improved endurance, which already was at virtual limit, the improvement has come from much faster intrinsic speed guys running M

better athletes

similar/same endurance as guys like clayton/sal/thompson/jones/lopes/seko but blessed with hugely better intrinsic 10k speed than those guys

try lopes 27'15 / 2"07 for a 10k to

2"02'57

???

your reuters is busted

eh ???

who ???

eh ???

rather than spout drivel

offer me some of those comments

i just hope your "people" aren't offering drivel of

" 2"02+ : yeah, probably in 27-flat shape "

` wrote:

ventolin^3 wrote:

27'00 was bandied about when 2"05+ was wr

use your neurone

we are down to 2"02+

use that neurone & apply :

27'00 = 2"05'38

to

2"02'57 ?

2:05:38 / 2:02:57 = 1.02182

1.02182 / 27 = 26:25.4

thank you

that 26'25 gives a basic start

remember, we then have to add in physiology of the "wall"

humans are not evolved to run optimally beyond ~ 20 miles

their glycogen runs out no matter how much they pre-load, drink gatorade during run

the implication is that a M'ers shoud always be better at 10k rather than M, even if wr at M

anyhows, i have some mathematical equivalents for track 10k & track 1/2M & M

28'00 = 61'19 = 2"09'11

27'30 = 60'16 = 2"07'05

27'00 = 59'12 = 2"04'57

...

26'45 = 58'41 = 2"03'54

26'30 = 58'09 = 2"02'51

remember, a track M is going to be faster than a road M as track is perfectly flat & little wind in modern enclosed stadium + very frequent pace updates, lap-by-lap possible

a track 2"02'57, even in berlin is likely to be close to 1'00 slower

( above equivalents take out wall )