Do you believe that fatigue is psychological or physiological?

Yeah ok. Try starting your car with no gas in the tank.

carz wrote:

Yeah ok. Try starting your car with no gas in the tank.

Sure.

carz wrote:

Yeah ok. Try starting your car with no gas in the tank.

Well isn't that what's being debated? That hypothetically there is gas in the tank but your mind/brain is "convincing" you that you're empty?

I believe psychological fatigue is a "protective cushion" and physiological fatigue (or damage) is not far behind.

Wow, 10 males....what a very large sample size.

Divide wrote:

Obviously it can be a combination of both but there are new studies coming out that suggest that fatigue is purely psychological whereas in the past it was thought that it was purely physiological. What side do you lean towards?

This article frames the debate

http://running.competitor.com/2014/05/training/endurance-fatigue-perception-is-everything_9067

Is sleepiness all psychological, too? If only we could eliminate those pesky "purely non physiological" sleep needs, like that episode of the x-files we could tap into supernatural powers... Um. Yeah.

Recovery? What's that?

And my immune system and brain synapses are being such wusses. Why can't they just man up? And sleep deprivation resulting in cognitive impairment? It's all psychological. Just get over it. Just like binge drinking and driving. Alcohol intoxication and other pharmacological impairment is purely a matter of mental toughness.

Refractory period? Do you believe that's psychological or physiological?

Ugggh. Matt Fitzgerald article. "Scientifically revolutionary"? Hardly, Noakes and others have been saying this for years.

Ultimately "psychological" IS "physiological". Everything happening in your body is a simply a by-product of a big hairy cell-culture. I have no idea why so many people reject the idea that the brain is there to help prevent the body from self-destruction.

Read Steve Magness's book.

Others have been saying this for years, including Matt Fitzgerald. He wrote a book called "Brain Training", which, among other things, was a practical complement to Noakes.

Limey UK Runner wrote:

Ugggh. Matt Fitzgerald article. "Scientifically revolutionary"? Hardly, Noakes and others have been saying this for years.

Ultimately "psychological" IS "physiological". Everything happening in your body is a simply a by-product of a big hairy cell-culture. I have no idea why so many people reject the idea that the brain is there to help prevent the body from self-destruction.

rekrunner wrote:

Others have been saying this for years, including Matt Fitzgerald. He wrote a book called "Brain Training", which, among other things, was a practical complement to Noakes.

Limey UK Runner wrote:

Ugggh. Matt Fitzgerald article. "Scientifically revolutionary"? Hardly, Noakes and others have been saying this for years.

Ultimately "psychological" IS "physiological". Everything happening in your body is a simply a by-product of a big hairy cell-culture. I have no idea why so many people reject the idea that the brain is there to help prevent the body from self-destruction.

At some point, namely those involuntary brain nervous system mechanisms... --Autonomic nervous system and sub cortical structures--

Cease to be "psychological" in the popular sense discussed here, as under the purview of conscious voluntary willpower and control.

Now there may be yogis and monks who through meditation and training can influence their sub cortical switches but that's outside any conventional consideration here. (Don't even try that because you can literally kill yourself or at least cause serious discomfort, health issues and psychosis, doing that). Neuroscience secrets of the sages...

Divide wrote:

Obviously it can be a combination of both but there are new studies coming out that suggest that fatigue is purely psychological whereas in the past it was thought that it was purely physiological. What side do you lean towards?

This article frames the debate

http://running.competitor.com/2014/05/training/endurance-fatigue-perception-is-everything_9067

Great link, interesting.

This is my analysis and its very specific to the conditions of the study. If you are in a study on an exercise bike and you have to exercise to the point of exhaustion what the results of the experiment states are true. You quit before your real point of exhaustion.

Now if the experimenters at the demonstrated point of exhaustion told the subjects that they would get 50 grand for another 10 minutes, I bet they would see it.

Being on an exercise bike where you have no internal motivation to run to your absolute limit is very different from a road race where you might have tons of internal motivation.

I feel, like most things in life, fatigue is not a binary, either/or type of condition. Fatigue is multifactorial in nature with both a psychological and physiological components.

If fatigue were psychological EPO wouldn't work. Neither would all the zillions of drugs that improve physical qualities. On the other hand there are even more drugs that will alter your mind but they're not remotely as effective for improving running performance. Amphetamines may give you a small mental boost though.

rekrunner wrote:

Others have been saying this for years, including Matt Fitzgerald. He wrote a book called "Brain Training", which, among other things, was a practical complement to Noakes.

Limey UK Runner wrote:

Ugggh. Matt Fitzgerald article. "Scientifically revolutionary"? Hardly, Noakes and others have been saying this for years.

Ultimately "psychological" IS "physiological". Everything happening in your body is a simply a by-product of a big hairy cell-culture. I have no idea why so many people reject the idea that the brain is there to help prevent the body from self-destruction.

You mean Matt Fitzgerald took something someone else said, repackaged it and sold it as his own? You've always struck me as a bright and composed guy. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make with your post.

Fatigue affects the entire body.

Perception, both in training and in competition, is the challenge.

Why does anyone listen to Magness or Fitzgerald? Magness peaked in high school, never ran faster over 1500m or the mile, and only has a 67 minute half. Fitzgerald has been consistently injured and ran 2:41, a time top HS'ers wouldn't struggle with.

Baconn wrote:

Why does anyone listen to Magness or Fitzgerald? Magness peaked in high school, never ran faster over 1500m or the mile, and only has a 67 minute half. Fitzgerald has been consistently injured and ran 2:41, a time top HS'ers wouldn't struggle with.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

This^

Fatigue is mostly psychological. That is why eugene clown kollege recruits morons like elfie rupp. The coaches there don't want people with brainpower or common sense.