https://youtu.be/qwDUGD-NURc
And that was his "long run"!
It happens at the 12:50 mark of this rather uncreative video about how to train for a 5k. Is anyone buying this?
And that was his "long run"!
It happens at the 12:50 mark of this rather uncreative video about how to train for a 5k. Is anyone buying this?
Perhaps more egregiously, he proceeds to advise 5k runners that they "never need to run more than 10 miles." This happens right after the Kennedy bit. Wonder what John Kellogg would have to say about that ...
anacondarunner wrote:
https://youtu.be/qwDUGD-NURcAnd that was his "long run"!
It happens at the 12:50 mark of this rather uncreative video about how to train for a 5k. Is anyone buying this?
I´ve got news for you. You can do high mileage without long runs.
He was also freakishly talented. What works for BK won't necessarily work for you.
You should model your training on what he did, not what he didn't do.
For example, if in order to not run more than 12 miles, he never ran less than 10 miles at a time, you really need to know that to get your own training, right.
One can only imagine how good Kennedy would have been if he understood the value of a LONG RUN. (And no, 12 miles is not a long run!!)
Kennedy trained a lot like the Kenyans of the 1990-2000s where the long run for even a Marathoner was 90-minutes. Canova spoke at length about this at his session last year. Kenyans believe 90 minutes of a hard long run on trails, hills, and altitude is sufficient preparation.
My best running 14:00/29:00 came with no long runs in 4 years in college. We ran probably 12 miles as well once every 2-3 weeks, but spent a lot of time on the track and nailing 6-10 milers.
Leirbag wrote:
Canova spoke at length about this at his session last year.
Link?
Granted these are race weeks, not base mileage.
Bob Kennedy's Run to the '96 Olympics
"We've thumbed through Bob Kennedys 1996 training log and pulled workouts from a few key periods leading up to the US Olympic Trials, a tune-up meet, and finally the Atlanta Olympics."
June 3: am- 6 miles pm- 6 miles
June 4: am- Track, 3 miles warm-up
400m- :59.8 (:60), 600m- 1:30.2 (:90), 800m- 2:02.3 (2:00),
1000m- 2:36.6 (2:30), 800m- 2:04.6 (2:00),
600m- 1:31.1 (:90), 400m- :60.3 - 2 mile cool down
pm- 4 miles
June 5: am- 5 miles pm- 5 miles, with 8*100m
June 6: am- Track, 3 miles warm-up
4*200m (:28.1, :27.7, :27.4, :26.6) (:80) (3:00)
4*200m (:28.1, :27.4, :27.4, :26.7) (:80) (3:00)
4*200m (:27.6, :27.2, :27.6, :26.8) (:75) - 1.5 miles cool down
pm- 4 miles
June 7: am- 5 miles, with 4*100m strides pm- 4miles
June 8: am- 3 miles
pm- Track, 3 miles warm-up
1600m (:58, :63, :60, :66) 4:07.2 (3:00)
1600m (:64, :59, :67, :60) 4:10.6 (3:00)
1600m (:60, :66, :60, :67) 4:13.6 - 2 mile cool down
June 9: 11 miles
75 miles for the week
One week before the Olympic Trials
June 10: am- 5 miles pm- 5 miles
June 11: am- 4 miles
pm- Track, 3 miles warm-up
4*400m (:58.1, :57.5, :58.5, :57.8) (:60) (3:00)
4*400m (:57.2, :58.2, :57.6, :58.1) (:60) (3:00)
4*400m (:58.0, :57.5, :57.2, :57.2) (:60) - 2 mile cool down
June 12: am- 5 miles pm- 3 miles
June 13: am- 5 miles
pm- 3 mile warm-up
1000m (2:27.6) (2:30)
600m (1:26.2) (2:00)
400m (:56.1) (:90)
200m (:26.8) - 1.5 mile cool down
June 14: am- 5 miles pm- 3 miles
June 15: am- 8 miles pm- 4 miles
June 16: am- Track, 3 mile warm-up
4*200m (:28.8, :28.2, :28.1, :28.1) (:75) (2:45)
4*200m (:28.3, :28.8, :27.9, :27.7) (:75) - 2 mile cool down
67 miles for the week
Week of the Olympic Trials.
June 17: am- 5 miles pm- 3 miles
June 18: am- 5 miles pm- 4 miles, strides
June 19: am- 3 miles
Olympic Trials (semi)
3 mile warm-up
5000m- 13:58.8 (3600m-4200m, 1:31)
3 mile cool down, strides
June 20: am- 4 miles pm- 4 miles, strides
June 21: am- 2 miles
Olympic Trials (Final)
3 mile warm-up
5000m 13:46.1 1st Place
4 mile cool down, 3rd K (2:35), last 3K (8:05)-fartlek
June 22: 3 miles
June 23: 8 miles
60 miles for the week
Week after the Olympic Trials.
June 24: am- Track, 3 mile warm-up
5*400 (:59.0, :58.3, :58.8, :58.8, :59.3)(:55) (4:00)
5*400 (:59.6, :58.5, :59.9, :58.5, :57.4)(:60) - 2.5 mile cool down
June 25: am- Travel to London pm- 7 miles
June 26: am- 5 miles pm- 5 miles
June 27: am- 7 miles pm- 5 miles
June 28: am- Track, 3 mile warm-up
8*200m (:28.9, :28.2, :28.4, :28.0, :28.6, :27.7, :27.7, :27.8)(:75)
2 mile cool down
pm- 5 miles
June 29: am- 5 miles pm- 3 miles, strides
June 30: am- 2 miles
Gateshead, 3 mile warm-up
1500m 3:40.97 1st Place- 2 mile cool down
64 miles for the week
One week before Stockholm and the American Record.
July 1: 13 miles
July 2: am- 3 miles
pm- Track, 3 mile warm-up
1200m (3:05.1)(:60) 400m (:58.5) (4:00)
1200m (3:00.8)(:60) 400m (:58.2) (4:00)
1200m (2:59.1)(:60) 400m (:57.5) - 2 mile cool down
July 3: am- 5 miles, 8 strides
July 4: am- 5 miles pm- 5 miles, strides
July 5: am- 3 miles
pm- Track, 3 miles warm-up
4*400m (:59.6, :61.5, :60.0, :58.0)(:60) (2:30)
4*200m (:29.7, :28.5, :28.5, :28.1)(:70) - 1.5 mile cool down
July 6: am- 7 miles
July 7: am- 5 miles pm- 3 miles, with strides
64 miles for the week
Stockholm and the American Record, and two weeks before the Olympics.
July 8: am- 2 miles
pm- Stockholm
3 mile warm-up, 5000m 12:58.75 (AR)-2nd Place
2:37, 5:10(2:33), 7:47(2:37), 10:24(2:37), 12:58(2:34)
1 mile cool down, strides
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 15: am- Track, 3 mile warm-up
5*1000m (2:32.7, 2:32.4, 2:31.7, 2:31.5, 2:30.5)(2:00)
3 mile cool down
pm- 5 miles
July 16: am- 7 miles
July 17: am- Track, 3 mile warm-up
4*400m (:59.6, :59.2, :58.1, :59.7)(:55) (3:00)
4*400m (:59.6, :59.4, :59.1, :58.1)(:55) (3:00)
4*400m (:59.0, :58.8, ;59.5, :58.1)(:55) - 2 mile cool down
pm: 5 miles
July 18: am- 5 miles pm: Travel to Atlanta
July 19: am- 7.5 miles pm- 3 miles
July 20: pm- 8.5 miles
July 21: am- Track, 3 mile warm-up
4*400m (:62.7, :59.9, :60.1, :59.1)(:55) (2:30)
4*400m (:61.5, :59.9, :59.8, :58.5)(:55) - 1 mile cool down
pm- 5 miles
69 miles for the week
One week before the Olympics.
July 22: am- 5 miles pm- 5 miles
July 23: am- Track, 3 mile warm-up
1600m (4:06.6) (4:00)
1200m (3:02.8) (4:00)
800m (1:58.9) (4:00)
400m (:55.4) - 3 mile cool down
pm- 5 miles
July 24: am- 5 miles pm- 5 miles
July 25: am- 5 miles pm- 5 miles, 4*100m strides
July 26: am- Track, 3 mile warm-up
3*400m (:59.7, :60.0, :59.4)(:90)
3*300m (:42.9, :43.2, :43.2)(:70) (3:00)
3*200m (:27.4, :28.0, :27.0)(:70) - 2 mile cool down
pm- 3 miles
July 27: am- 3 miles pm- 3 miles, strides, 2 miles
July 28: pm- Track, 2.5 mile warm-up
4*200 (:28.5, :28.0, :27.8, :27.5)(:65) (2:45)
4*200 (:28.7, :27.6, :28.7, :27.2)(:65) - 1.5 mile cool down
66 miles for the week
Olympic Games in Atlanta, Semi-Finals and Finals.
July 29: am 5 miles pm- 3 miles, strides, 3 miles
July 30: am- 5 miles pm- 4 miles, strides
July 31: am- 1.5 miles
pm- Olympic Games (1st round)
2.5 mile warm-up, 5000m 13:54.57 4th Place
1 mile cool down, ice bath, light massage
August 1: am- 1.5 miles
pm- Olympic Games (Semi)
2.5 mile warm-up, 5000m 13:27.9 4th Place
1 mile cool down, ice bath, light massage
August 2: 3 miles, strides
August 3: am- 1.5 miles
pm- Olympic Games (Final)
2.5 warm-up, 5000m 13:12.35 6th Place
1 mile cool down
duathlon.com: What kind of mileage did you run in 1998.
Bob Kennedy: When I was in Australia in January and February I was up to a maximum of 141miles in a week. It was basically a gradual 105, 115, 135, 140, 135 miles per week. The bulk was in the 125 to 130 range. About 6 weeks of that. I raced at the end of February down there and ran 13:15 for 5000m, off of that training and a week of 90 miles.
duathlon.com: How did that kind of mileage feel?
Bob Kennedy: It wasn't bad. I have nothing else to do down there, and in fact, on my second 10 miler of the day, the first 30 minutes would be horrible, and the second 30 minutes I felt great. Time and time again the second 30 minutes would be much easier.
duathlon.com: What is your weekly mileage from March to May.
Bob Kennedy: Ideally I want to do 100 to 110 miles per week. That includes one long run of 13 to 16 miles
duathlon.com: What type of mileage do you do during the European racing season?
Bob Kennedy: Early summer it starts at about 75 miles a week and it goes all the way down to about 50 by the end of the summer. When I can, a day or two after a race, if I don't race again for another 10 days I will do a 75 minute run to keep the aerobic thing going, and that is my long run.
duathlon.com: Do the Kenyans do the same mileage during the racing season?
Bob Kennedy: I would say that during the summer they actually do less. Rarely twice a day. They just rest for the racing.
There you have it...
I don't have a link as I did not video tape the session. He referenced Toby Tanser's "Train Hard, Win Easy", which I do have a copy of and all the military camp training schedules top out at 90-min long runs, but they are running 140-160/mile week in some instances, with multiple 90' runs.
jamjamjam wrote:
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=1002544&page=2duathlon.com: What kind of mileage did you run in 1998.Bob Kennedy: When I was in Australia in January and February I was up to a maximum of 141miles in a week. It was basically a gradual 105, 115, 135, 140, 135 miles per week. The bulk was in the 125 to 130 range. About 6 weeks of that. I raced at the end of February down there and ran 13:15 for 5000m, off of that training and a week of 90 miles.
duathlon.com: How did that kind of mileage feel?
Bob Kennedy: It wasn't bad. I have nothing else to do down there, and in fact, on my second 10 miler of the day, the first 30 minutes would be horrible, and the second 30 minutes I felt great. Time and time again the second 30 minutes would be much easier.
duathlon.com: What is your weekly mileage from March to May.
Bob Kennedy: Ideally I want to do 100 to 110 miles per week. That includes one long run of 13 to 16 miles
duathlon.com: What type of mileage do you do during the European racing season?
Bob Kennedy: Early summer it starts at about 75 miles a week and it goes all the way down to about 50 by the end of the summer. When I can, a day or two after a race, if I don't race again for another 10 days I will do a 75 minute run to keep the aerobic thing going, and that is my long run.
duathlon.com: Do the Kenyans do the same mileage during the racing season?
Bob Kennedy: I would say that during the summer they actually do less. Rarely twice a day. They just rest for the racing.
There you have it...
beat me to it
Alberto Salazar
10 weeks, average daily mileage is 14.2 miles. Average long run is 13.0 miles. Longest run is 15 miles.
=======================================================================
From that thread a summary from Alberto Salazars training log in 1977
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=2472389&page=270 days, 130 sessions
60 doubles
10 singles
21.5% = percentage of individual runs 10 miles or longer (28 out of 130 efforts averaging 11.85 miles, range 10-15 miles)
14.2 miles = avg daily mileage
2.7 miles = stdev
15 miles = mode (28x), 14(11x), 16(7x), 13(5x), 12(5x), 18(4x)
69 = number of AM runs (including Sunday long run)
7.1 miles = avg AM run
6.2 miles = avg AM run (not including long run)
61 = number of PM runs
8.3 miles = avg PM run
9 long runs (13,11,13,14,14,13,15,12,12)
13.0 miles = avg long run
15 miles = longest run. One occurrence.
Long runs = 91% of the avg daily mileage
Long runs = 13.1% of the avg weekly mileage
========================================================================
FROM THE TODD WILLIAMS TRAINING THREAD
Todd Williams
10 weeks, average daily mileage is 14.2 miles. Average long run is 10.2 miles. Longest run is 12 miles.
10 long runs (12-8-10-10-8-11-12-10-11-10)
10.2 miles = avg long run
12 miles = longest run. One occurrence.
Long runs = 80% of the avg daily mileage
Long runs = 13.4% of the avg weekly mileage
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=2277974Weekly mileage for the 10 weeks leading up to 1995 Gate River Run: 110-102-91-86-93-105-105-95-103-106* race week
Specific workouts: Each week I would do a track workout, hill workout and a faster road run, with some samples of those below. For each workout I ran a 3-4 mile warm-up at a sub 6:00 pace, followed by 6-150m strides and a 2 mile warm-down.
Key workouts:
1. 4xmile@4:15 with 3 minutes recovery jogs between each mile
2. Hills – 10x380 meter hill with jog back down for recovery between each
3. 8 x 1000m @2:45 with 200m jog recovery between each 1000m
4. 1600m – 1200m--800m-400m@:60-:61 pace with 400m jog recovery between each
5. 5 miles HARD road run (4:45 pace) then back to the track for 4 x 800m @2:02 – 2:04 with 400m jog recovery
6. 20 x 200m @ :30 with 200m jog recovery
7. 6 mile HARD road run then back to the track for a 4:08 mile
I ran twice a day every day, with my pace on each run never slower than 6 minutes per mile. At the completion of each afternoon run I would do 8 x 150m strides at mile race pace.
Thanks. Well worth reading. Really good sensible training that, if you look at how it's built up gradually, is the sort of stuff that surely thousands of Americans in their early 20's could do?
I'm sure Mr. Latham was trying to use hyperbole to make his point, but as stated he has the facts wrong which never helps your case. In 2004 Kennedy dropped out of the NYC marathon at about the 18 mile mark. So regardless of what Kennedy ran on any other day (which I think is pretty well documented to be more than 12 miles regularly) getting to mile 18 at NYC negates Mr. Latham's statement.
anacondarunner wrote:
https://youtu.be/qwDUGD-NURcAnd that was his "long run"!
It happens at the 12:50 mark of this rather uncreative video about how to train for a 5k. Is anyone buying this?
Anyone else experience AMSR during his lecture? He basically covered everything you ever need to know about training in 15 minutes.
How many/which years did Latham coach Kennedy?
anacondarunner wrote:
https://youtu.be/qwDUGD-NURcAnd that was his "long run"!
It happens at the 12:50 mark of this rather uncreative video about how to train for a 5k. Is anyone buying this?
No surprised at all, BK never saw himself as a long distance runner. BK was originally a miler, he was a strength-based miler whose sweet spot was actually the 3K; I think his 7:30 3K,which he ran early in his pro career is better than his 12:58 5K. He was good at cross country because he had a very good physique and biomechanics for driving up hills and foot placement that was good for natural terrain. One of the best decisions he made was going to Indiana as opposed to a high mileage program.
TrackCoach wrote:
anacondarunner wrote:https://youtu.be/qwDUGD-NURcAnd that was his "long run"!
It happens at the 12:50 mark of this rather uncreative video about how to train for a 5k. Is anyone buying this?
No surprised at all, BK never saw himself as a long distance runner. BK was originally a miler, he was a strength-based miler whose sweet spot was actually the 3K; I think his 7:30 3K,which he ran early in his pro career is better than his 12:58 5K. He was good at cross country because he had a very good physique and biomechanics for driving up hills and foot placement that was good for natural terrain. One of the best decisions he made was going to Indiana as opposed to a high mileage program.
What pace is BKs normal mileage? Seems to imply his runs were at 6:00 pace? Guess recovery runs (read junk mileage) were unnecessary due to low mileage?
Sample training of Weldon Johnson (28:06)
Early Pre-Season (Feb. 2000)
All runs are at 7,100 ft. altitude and are untimed unless otherwise indicated
S A.M. 6.5 miles easy on grass/trails
P.M. 15 miles easy on grass/road/trails
M A.M. 6.5 miles easy on grass/trails
P.M. 14.5 miles high mountain run (starting at 8,200 ft, going up to 9,500 ft., then back down to 8,200 ft.) at slow pace but moderate effort owing to the uphill and the altitude, 5 medium to fast buildups on a level surface following the run
T A.M. 6.5 miles easy on grass/trails
P.M. 15 miles on grass/road/trails
W A.M. 6.5 miles easy on grass/trails
P.M. 15 miles at low altitude (1,000 ft.) w/ 7 miles in middle at high-end aerobic pace (untimed, but fractionally slower than threshold pace), 4 buildups during jog following high-end pace
R A.M. 6.5 miles easy on grass/trails
P.M. 15 miles on grass/road/trails
F A.M. 6.5 miles easy on grass/trails
P.M. 14 miles easy on grass/road/trails w/ 4 light to medium speed buildups near end
S 24 miles easy at 3,200 ft. altitude on grass/trails w/ last several miles gradually picked up but untimed (water every few miles)
Total mileage for week = 151.5
Late Pre-Season (March 2000)
S 13 miles easy on trails
M A.M. 5 miles easy on grass/trails
P.M. 13 miles comfortably-paced high mountain run (8,200 ft. to 9,200 ft.) w/ 4 buildups near end
T A.M. 6 miles easy on grass/trails
P.M. (Altitude of 4,500 ft., repeats done on dirt track) 2.5 miles jog, 4 buildups, 2 strides, 5 x 1,600 @ 5:03, 4:53, 4:53, 4:52, 4:36/ 400 meters jog between each, 3 miles jog w/ 4 medium to fast buildups included
W A.M. 6 miles easy on grass/trails
P.M. 14 miles easy on grass/road/trails
R A.M. 5 miles easy on grass/trails
P.M. (Low altitude of 1,000 ft.) 2 miles jog, 4 buildups, 3 strides, 8 miles @ 5:10 start, 5:04 average in middle, 4:46 last mile, 3 miles jog w/ 4 medium to fast buildups included
F 10 miles easy on grass/road/trails
S 25 miles easy at 3,200 ft.altitude on grass/trails w/ last few miles slightly picked up (water every few miles)
Total mileage for week = 122.5
Golden Variable wrote:
What pace is BKs normal mileage? Seems to imply his runs were at 6:00 pace? Guess recovery runs (read junk mileage) were unnecessary due to low mileage?
6:00 pace is a slow recovery pace for him
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