female high school runner times getting slower please help

Some people, when they are cooked/burnt/overtrained, try even harder and bury themselves in a hole.

You can't come out of the hole without resting/recovering.

Should I take a few days off? Should I do anything else?

More than a few days. It takes a lot of discipline to not run when you are cooked.

There's just one thing that doesn't make sense: my workouts all go really well and indicate that I could run a sub 11 3200. I don't feel tired during workouts....

It sounds like you're running your workouts too hard and fast. You might try taking a week of nothing but very easy running for 30 min. a day. By "very easy" I mean running so slowly and easily that you're sure it's not doing you any good.

What does your training look like for a entire week or two? And what do your coaches think?

Hey. I think you might be giving it your all in workouts or you might be doing easy runs too fast. This could make you progressively tired so I would cut back your pace and see what happens. Of course, if this doesnt help it might be wise to talk to coaches, parents, etc. Good luck! you will get through this plateau!!!

What I see is you were showing pretty clear cut signs of overtraining and your mileage increased, as did I'm assuming your amount of speed or other quality training. My guess is, 1) Too many miles 2) Too many miles too fast and 3) A panic type response that each time out you have to prove to yourself you're still capable of good times. From a conservative coach's point of view, running a 3200 time trial at all was reckless. I will assume you got so excited after that you started killing the training. So after a long break, you started up hard training and racing instantly.

If you were my athlete, and I've done this before several times, you would take 1-2 weeks off right now. Build base for a month, (jogging and strides), and then in mid April start up with your typical track training. I can't promise you'll break 11 but you should be running faster than you are now and at least you will have reversed the direction you were headed.

Lots of teenage girls have a bad season or three and the biggest mistake they make is to fight it. Its like being in the ocean when the waves get big. (Since you have started outdoor I'll hope you're from California.) When a big wave wants to take you down, let, when the whitewater is gone, then pop up to the surface. If you fight the big wave, you drown.

My coach thinks it's all mental, that I don't run fast in a race because i'm trying to hard to beat everyone instead of using my energy to just run. I think there has to be something physical for this big of a plateau.

Here's was this weeks training leading up to the meet today:

Monday:

Weight training

8x400 in 79 with 1 min rest

1 mile warm up and cool down

Tuesday:

7 miles easy at 7:50 pace

Wednesday:

Weight training

4x1200 in 4:26-4:35 with 5 min rest

2x200 in 36

1 mile WU and CD

Thursday:

7 miles easy at 8:15 pace

Friday:

4 miles easy at 8:10 pace

Saturday: one mi and two mi race

On a weekend without a meet I would do a 10 mile long run or a 3-4 mi tempo at 6:40ish pace

Any thoughts based on this?

thanks for the encouraging words :)

do you have any tips for holding back in workouts?

also, I do my easy runs anywhere from 7:50 to 8:15 pace. I usually wear a heart rate monitor and stay around 160 which is like 70% of my max.

Our first qualifier for state is mid April.

We have sectionals the first week of may, and state the second week of may.

I would rather have a terrible season than miss it all.

do you think cutting mileage and adding a weekly rest day would help at all?

I once talked talked to coach and we discussed something similar to this. He said that sometimes girls are better in their freshmen and early sophomore year because in their junior and senior years their bodies are more developed.

However, I'm not sure this would your case since you are training at even higher intensity. Maybe taking a high days off like the other people said is a good idea.

runninghappy1824 wrote:

do you think cutting mileage and adding a weekly rest day would help at all?

Yes. Cut volume, add rest,weeks from now, increase intensity but not volume.

As another post mentions, rethink your training sessions as it may be that you are not saving something for the race day. It may be mental, but cut the volume, tweak the workouts, and see what happens.

Try not to worry too much while you experiment with your workouts.

Everyone thinks they should be faster. Instead of training for what you think you should run, try training based on where your current fitness is.

Also 11:20's a month ago is not far off your PR. In HS your body goes through different growth spurts. You need to be patient. The 12+ was a bummer. I agree it might be time to take some time off.

AH - this message board is the last place you should ever go for real useful advice.

runninghappy1824 wrote:

My coach thinks it's all mental

The poor results are 100% a physiological response to the bad coaching, and bad attitude/excuses of the coach.

The Wednesday reps are too long, and not specific to the 1600 and 3200. I'd cut out that workout, and repeat the Monday 400s, or just do them once, on Tuesday.

The other days go easy. I think your 7:50 pace is too fast for ample recovery. Any time your legs feel tired, slow way down on your runs, just shuffle along or else walk. Your half marathon is good, but that's a different season and type of training than running fast for the 1600 and 3200.

I would not take off completely, but make sure you are going easy enough for recovery.

If anything, you could slow down a bitt (or jog) your recovery days. This schedule seems fine. You probably need to skip the Sunday tempo and do a slow long run (Start at 9:00 pace and go by feel thereafter).

Here's the now-little-known but once (30 years ago) commonly practiced secret for HS success:

Sometime, maybe the beginning of any semester, there will be a time when a bunch of tables are set up, probably in the gym. The only way to participate in a school-organized and -sanctioned sport is to go in there and sign up. Don't sign up. Don't even go into the room. This is the key to distance running success in your youth.

If you're not on the list, you won't just automatically become part of a team. You may doubt this - your entire generation may, but believe me, if you don't go in there on that day, the school and its coaches won't have any authority over you: over your training schedule, the events you train for, the events you race, your racing schedule, what colors you wear, what or whom you advertise on the clothes, whether or not you take EPO, whether or not you use caffiene, etc.

Again, this may sound far fetched, but I did this semester after semester, and the school district coach wouldn't just automatically become my coach. I was able to train exactly optimally for myself and peak for the events I decided to peak for. This really does work. I realize you have not tried it and neither have your friends or anyone besides me on the board including the LRC ownership and staff. However, I have. And by the way, my HS 10k PR is faster than any of you - and yes, I include the brojos.

I know the reaction to posts of this sort, so I won't be clicking on this thread again. Your vitriol will not be read by me and will not be riling me up!

I'm not qualified to advise you on the rights or wrongs of your program but this is what my 17 year old daughter does:

Monday. 6 mile progressive.

Tuesday. 4 x 1200 at 4:00-4:05. with 2:15 min. recovery.

Wednesday. 6 mile steady.

Thursday. 2.5 x 6 x 400 at 70-75 secs. 1 min recovery. 5 min between sets.

Friday. Rest

Saturday. Hill Session

Sunday. 8 mile easy.

If racing on Saturday, Wednesday reduced to 4-mile and just 5x200 on Thursday.

She NEVER DOUBLES! at race meetings.

No weights!

PRs. 1500m. Sub 4:22. 800m Sub 2:10