Sub 3 Marathon?

You need more miles. With those 5k & 10k PR's you should be able to run much faster than 3:11. 40mpw isn't enough for anyone to get near their potential in the marathon.

Jumping up from 30-40mpw up to more than 50 would probably be a good idea, however if you've never run anywhere near that much, doing so in a few months might end up being detrimental.

Higdon's plans way overwork you on the weekends and basically give you a pass to do almost nothing during the week. Pick up a copy of Advanced Marathoning by Pete Pfitzinger and start incorporating a longer run on Wednesdays.

Good luck.

Bingo!

browski wrote:

You need more miles. With those 5k & 10k PR's you should be able to run much faster than 3:11. 40mpw isn't enough for anyone to get near their potential in the marathon.

Jumping up from 30-40mpw up to more than 50 would probably be a good idea, however if you've never run anywhere near that much, doing so in a few months might end up being detrimental.

Higdon's plans way overwork you on the weekends and basically give you a pass to do almost nothing during the week. Pick up a copy of Advanced Marathoning by Pete Pfitzinger and start incorporating a longer run on Wednesdays.

Good luck.

browski wrote:

You need more miles.

Good luck.

Yep. I had faster PRs than you at all distances, and I got into the low 60's for MPW before I broke 3:00 for the first time. Even low 60's isn't very much

Thanks for the advice, I'll work on gradually building mileage. Looking forward to comparing Higdon's plan and Pfitzinger's plan too. I know that I am able to run much faster than a 6:52 mile pace for 7 miles, but today and last week it seemed wicked hard. I am guessing what made it hard was simply the fatigue from being in mid-marathon training? Has anyone had success using Hal Higdon's's Advanced training plan?

I've used Higdon's plans for many distances for many years. I always build a big base before starting the plan so I can add a lot more miles and still do his other workouts. One easy way to do this is to just add miles to the warmup and cooldown.

It's not unusual to fail a workout like a pace run now and then. But if you find yourself doing that a few weeks in a row then you need to reevaluate.

If I remember correctly, Higdon does more quality/speed workouts than Pfitzinger. Nothing wrong with Hal's plans. Different approaches work for different people.

I'll be honest and say that I don't think you are headed for sub 3 just yet. You probably do need more mileage. Your best shot might be to just run this marathon without a time goal then come back in the fall and try for sub 3.

The best way to break 3 hours is to be in 2:50 shape.

When I was 37 I had a 1:19:50 half, a 36:25 10K and a 17:37 5K. I was running 60-75 miles a week for the 2 months leading up to the marathon and ran 2:54:51. If you have the time to raise your mileage you have a shot, but it doesn't seem likely. I agree with the guy who suggested you run this one with no time goal and point towards one in the fall for your first sub 3. You can do it..

Thanks for the advice guys! Very helpful. Looks like I need more time.

Agree with others here. Your low mileage is your main problem. Unless you have more talent - and, being honest, your PRs don't suggest as much - it's going to be hard to run sub-3 on 40 mpw.

I like the idea of marathon-pace workouts. But 6-7 miles at MP shouldn't be a struggle unless you're doing it at the end of a long run. It should feel somewhat relaxed - comfortably fast - if it's the only mileage of the day. But you already know that since you've raised it as a concern.

I don't really know the Higdon plan; does it call for tempo runs? I like tempos of 4-7 miles as Pfitz calls for - running at this pace can help make your MP feel easier. MP should not be the fastest work you're doing when you get into the meat of your training cycle.

Like others advise, I would use this cycle as strength building and then target a fall cycle for sub-3. I would buy Pfitzinger's Advanced Marathoning if only to get different ideas. And if you want to keep your mileage on the lower end, I would buy the Hansons book. That program focuses on MP workouts and repeats.

For some comparison basis, my short-distance race times were roughly the same as the ones you listed when I broke 3, but I ran a 1:24 half about 10 weeks out. I was averaging 65 mpw with several 70+ weeks and did 4-8 miles at MP at the end of long runs. I knew sub-3 was likely when I ran a half marathon at MP a couple weeks beforehand and felt relaxed throughout. Your goal should be to get comfortable at MP, which I think starts with more mileage and is helped by tempo runs. Good luck!

Thanks again! Very helpful. Amazing how helpful everyone has been and I appreciate the honest answers.

Excellent post, sub 3 adviser. You are right on all points. OP: I would follow sub 3's advice. For the most part, it comes down to mileage. When you are comfortable at sub 3 marathon pace, then you will go sub 3. The way to do this is by increasing your weekly mileage. Do this wisely.

My HM time is 1:26:10 Within months of doing this, I was able to sustain 15-mile runs fairly comfortably at 6:45-6:50 pace. This is where you need to be. Unfortunately, it all went to pieces when I got hurt during this great phase. Thus, I must now wait for my shot at sub 3. I wish you all the best. You can do it.