Whose at fault for DOPING? Athletes or coaches? Both?

Agents.

Oh - and sponsors.

Whoever it is, its def not Renato Canova. All his athletes are clean and would never consider drugs. PEDs wouldn't work for them anyways.

c. the consumer (fans)

We can try to blame coaches and athletes but we still watch and attend meets where Justin Gaitlin competes. When fans start placing more value on clean athletes and negative value on dirty world/age records, the market for doped athletes will decrease. Like so many other things we can try to catch the perpetrators (we won't get them - never will) or we can think about who is creating the demand.

Unfortunately the liberal-driven, qe-inflated society wants more home runs, touchdowns, and slam dunks. We did not realize this was the society we would get when we made the decisions that created it.

krispy kremlin wrote:

Unfortunately the liberal-driven, qe-inflated society wants more home runs, touchdowns, and slam dunks. We did not realize this was the society we would get when we made the decisions that created it.

Damn you Obama for the EPO and slam dunks. I knew it was his fault.

Athletes are big boys and girls - no one has a gun to their head to take pills or inject whatever. I can't see anyone being responsible other than athletes themselves. The lure of so called success, however is a powerful falsity

Obama

trollism wrote:

krispy kremlin wrote:

Unfortunately the liberal-driven, qe-inflated society wants more home runs, touchdowns, and slam dunks. We did not realize this was the society we would get when we made the decisions that created it.

Damn you Obama for the EPO and slam dunks. I knew it was his fault.

I did not say Obama. This is a societal decision - and every day more and more in society is being determined by liberal ideology.

The people on this website should be banned as well the athletes for instigating this in the first place. This is the only place where anyone really cares about doping.

Since EVERYONE dopes anyway - according to many threads there hasn't been a single runner (of any note) who hasn't been accused by someone - not sure why so many threads about the topic even pop up.

I enjoy the sport for the competition and performance. But I don't naively care if people are doping or not - the rich (nike athletes) will get away with it, and others will be sacrificial lambs (Russians) - as I leave that up to the bored and stupid to worry about.

live long and proper wrote:

The people on this website should be banned as well the athletes for instigating this in the first place. This is the only place where anyone really cares about doping.

Since EVERYONE dopes anyway - according to many threads there hasn't been a single runner (of any note) who hasn't been accused by someone - not sure why so many threads about the topic even pop up.

I enjoy the sport for the competition and performance. But I don't naively care if people are doping or not - the rich (nike athletes) will get away with it, and others will be sacrificial lambs (Russians) - as I leave that up to the bored and stupid to worry about.

At what age to you think the kids should start doping at?

trollism wrote:

live long and proper wrote:

The people on this website should be banned as well the athletes for instigating this in the first place. This is the only place where anyone really cares about doping.

Since EVERYONE dopes anyway - according to many threads there hasn't been a single runner (of any note) who hasn't been accused by someone - not sure why so many threads about the topic even pop up.

I enjoy the sport for the competition and performance. But I don't naively care if people are doping or not - the rich (nike athletes) will get away with it, and others will be sacrificial lambs (Russians) - as I leave that up to the bored and stupid to worry about.

At what age to you think the kids should start doping at?

And that's exactly it. Turning a blind eye to doping is a societal cue that we'll turn a blind eye to other forms of cheating. I blame the neo-liberals that are morally-gutting our society.

All who perpetuate or accept the myth that doping started at the same time as testing in the 60's and 70's are at fault.

Also all who pretend that testing is anything but window dressing, i.e. just because some athletes get busted means the rest are more likely to be clean.

And finally, everyone who pretends athletes are all innocent of doping until proven guilty. It's not a court of law, just a question of ascertaining facts. Everyone is possibly a doper except the ones who are definitely dopers. Nobody is definitely not a doper. And athletics is so rife with doping that no athlete has enough of a "clean" reputation to suffer significant harm from doping allegations. People that angrily defend their heroes, demand proof and so forth, only make things worse.

krispy kremlin wrote:

trollism wrote:

At what age to you think the kids should start doping at?

And that's exactly it. Turning a blind eye to doping is a societal cue that we'll turn a blind eye to other forms of cheating. I blame the neo-liberals that are morally-gutting our society.

This 'society in decline' never was..

The dope has gotten better though.

The federations are okay with doping. Allegedly.

Piss n' Cigs wrote:

Why not BAN coaches for an excessive number of athletes being caught cheating/Doping/using banned substances?

Aren't the coaches partly to blame? I think so. After all, look at the women's world record in the 10k/1500/400/800. Therefore, should there be a sentencing process (ban) for coaches as well as athletes set by the IAAF or anyother dipshit governing body?

(I read this interesting article about the Chinese runner's and their coach:

http://www.naspspa.org/AcuCustom/Sitename/Documents/DocumentItem/1701.pdf

Which sparked my speculation to who is at fault. Neither athletes holding WR were caught DOPING but at least six of Ma's athletes were. Should he have been banned from coaching?)

p.s. I thought this was a good counter to the article above...although it should be common theory out here on LRC.com:

http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/crash-training-wang-and-qu-431?#

It's case-specific. There are going to be athletes who dope entirely without the coach's knowledge at one end of the spectrum and coaches who dope athletes without their consent at the other end. Coaches who play a role in doping should be punished (otherwise you're only eliminating some fraction of the problem), but you can't use the number of doped athletes as the only factor. If you say "after x number of a coach's athletes dope, the coach is eligible for a ban," then that gives dirty coaches license to dope x-1 athletes with no repercussions.

Are you saying the athlete does not know?

Then, of course whoever gave it to him/her without their knowledge.

But if the athlete knew, then the athlete.

Coaches can already be banned under the WADA code