Anyone here have 5k success off really low mileage???

Not sure why you want to hide in mediocre running goals.

Why don't you build your mileage back up?

Find and fix the source of your injuries...

This topic is otherwise analogous to skiing in a sand desert.

Don't do that every week. Find a two week cycle.

Make the long run longer and run it twice a month, the second long run even longer.

Maybe 12 miles week two and 16 miles week 4

That allows either a second interval session on week one and three or secondary tempo runs. You might find it best to not really bother with tempos unless they are 1 k repeats or actual 5k races controlled into tempo effort. Or you could fartlek instead of tempo.

Go for it!

First, consider that your chance of injury is at least as high at low mileage and intense speed as it is with, say, 40-50, and no crushing speed.

That being said, I knew a guy who ran two miles a day (most days) pretty much all out. That was his only training. He ran 16:56. He didn't run in hs or college either and never did more serious training than that. Your schedule could easily produce a sub 16. My only advice is to not take that long run too slowly. At only three days a week you might as well make that a 10 mile/sub 60 minute run. Good Luck.

You might even be able to do this off 20miles per 10 days

Mitja wrote:

Not sure why you want to hide in mediocre running goals.

Why don't you build your mileage back up?

Find and fix the source of your injuries...

This topic is otherwise analogous to skiing in a sand desert.

I probably wasn't specific enough initially. My injury issue was a herniated disc in my back. The issue is fixed, but my doc advises against much mileage. I'm guessing I could get back to high mileage but it would likely be risky, and my overall health is more important to me.

5 miles of intervals and a 6 mile tempo run are way too much and asking for injury.

Run for minutes. Change the 6 mile tempo to a 45 min progression run increasing pace every 15 min.

Jog 15 min, 15 at 7 min, 15 at 6:20

Interval workout 2-3 miles total.

goodluck wrote:

First, consider that your chance of injury is at least as high at low mileage and intense speed as it is with, say, 40-50, and no crushing speed.

That being said, I knew a guy who ran two miles a day (most days) pretty much all out. That was his only training. He ran 16:56. He didn't run in hs or college either and never did more serious training than that. Your schedule could easily produce a sub 16. My only advice is to not take that long run too slowly. At only three days a week you might as well make that a 10 mile/sub 60 minute run. Good Luck.

Thanks for the input guys; it is certainly appreciated. I have a PT who specializes in endurance athletes and have had a gait analysis that determined my form is better at quicker paces. The accumulated pounding of 40-50 miles per week, in his opinion, is worse for me than lower mileage at high intensity, largely because of the improved form etc. I will mention as well, all running will be done on grass, trails, other soft surfaces to lessen the impact.

Web2Web wrote:

5 miles of intervals and a 6 mile tempo run are way too much and asking for injury.

Run for minutes. Change the 6 mile tempo to a 45 min progression run increasing pace every 15 min.

Jog 15 min, 15 at 7 min, 15 at 6:20

Interval workout 2-3 miles total.

This is helpful, and along the lines of what I was thinking. 1 miles warm up, 3 miles of intervals, mile cool down. Also, the past year I have been keeping all my runs (6 miles is the furthest) below 7 min. pace. I will obviously need to slow down for the long run days.

i think you can get a lot out of 3 miles/5k worth of intervals, a 4 mile tempo (20-30 minutes) run, and one long run (60-80 minutes)--this has been pretty much my training pattern since turning 40 and i've run sub-15 on the roads an track (i was a sub-14 guy in my 20s), though i've been probably totaling closer to 60-70 miles/week.

if you have some disposable income, invest in an elliptigo (no, i'm not paid by them, but they have given me a "loaner" which i've found very useful)--i think it'd be much more beneficial than the bike rides as far as running goes...

socal cush wrote:

i think you can get a lot out of 3 miles/5k worth of intervals, a 4 mile tempo (20-30 minutes) run, and one long run (60-80 minutes)--this has been pretty much my training pattern since turning 40 and i've run sub-15 on the roads an track (i was a sub-14 guy in my 20s), though i've been probably totaling closer to 60-70 miles/week.

if you have some disposable income, invest in an elliptigo (no, i'm not paid by them, but they have given me a "loaner" which i've found very useful)--i think it'd be much more beneficial than the bike rides as far as running goes...

Thanks, I will check out the elliptigo. Those are seriously impressive times for 40!

I think your training plan is excellant for what you want to accomplish. Most runners would be surprised at the times they can run on very little mileage. My experience is that you can get within 10-20 seconds/mile of full time training.

I have had some back issues over the years and found that when it was bothering me, I could still run on the incline on a treadmill to get a good workout in.

I have had training blocks where I have run as much as 80 miles/week and others where I raced every weekend for over 2 months only doing the eliptical during the week.

I was a 14:27 5K guy in college on about 75 mpw. I now am 35 with a demanding job and a couple of young kids. Now I am averaging about 30mpw with lots of ups and downs (anywhere from 15-45 mpw) due to my work schedule. On this level of training I usually can run between 16:00 and 16:30 for 5Ks.

Very encouraging, thank you! My PT mentioned treadmill incline running as a good option so I may have to give that a shot.

socal cush wrote:

i think you can get a lot out of 3 miles/5k worth of intervals, a 4 mile tempo (20-30 minutes) run, and one long run (60-80 minutes)--this has been pretty much my training pattern since turning 40 and i've run sub-15 on the roads an track (i was a sub-14 guy in my 20s), though i've been probably totaling closer to 60-70 miles/week.

if you have some disposable income, invest in an elliptigo (no, i'm not paid by them, but they have given me a "loaner" which i've found very useful)--i think it'd be much more beneficial than the bike rides as far as running goes...

Socal Cush,

Besides the obvious indoor/outdoor & boredom factors, would you say there is any major difference between the elliptigo and and elliptical machine? Basically I'm asking - if one was ok managing the boredom of an elliptical - do you think it would have the same useful effect that you've seen from the elliptigo? If not, what do you think would be the main differences?

Thanks!

Never ridden one wrote:

Socal Cush,

Besides the obvious indoor/outdoor & boredom factors, would you say there is any major difference between the elliptigo and and elliptical machine? Basically I'm asking - if one was ok managing the boredom of an elliptical - do you think it would have the same useful effect that you've seen from the elliptigo? If not, what do you think would be the main differences?

Thanks!

probably not much difference, but i don't have any experience with stationary ellipticals (and i despise treadmills). the elliptigo does not work out arms at all--i know the ellipticals have an upperbody component, but i don't know how significant it is.

do they have an adjustment for inclines? riding the elliptigo up long hills and/or hill repeats gets the heartrate up very effectively. the machines have the obvious advantage of no weather, though that's generally not a factor here in socal...

Cool, that helps.

For the upperbody component, the elliptical machines I've used typically have two options - the handles that works your arms, or stationary hand grips with no arm movement (I imagine the second is similar to the elliptigo).

As for inclines, yeah I they usually do. There is usually both an incline setting, and also a resistance setting. So maybe I can at least get pretty close to the elliptigo hill effect with some combination of the two.

I'd love an elliptigo, but until the budget allows, I think I'll try supplementing the running miles with the elliptical.

How do you approach the intensity of the elliptigo in your overall training? With running, you mentioned 3 quality days: intervals, a tempo run, and a long run. The rest of the 60-70 I'm guessing are relatively easy miles.

Is the time on the elliptical comparable to your easy miles, marathon-type long tempo, short tempo, or interval intensity?

Thanks for the help!

It's not exactly your type of "success", as I'm still struggling to get sub 17:30 (been running for 4 years, overweight prior to that) and sub 38:30 10K, but I've managed to get some respectable times for my country. My training is as follows:

Mon:AM 7K easy (5:30/K) PM 30' up to 4:30/K and then 50s-100s-150s-200s to make a volume of 4000m with 10-20-30-40" in between and 1'30" rest every 1K

Tue:AM 7K easy PM short intervals (200s up to 500s to make up 4-6 kilometres)

Wed:AM rest PM threshold pace intervals (4-6k total volume off 400m-2000m reps at 170 bpm)

Thu:AM 7K easy PM 7K easy

Fri:AM 7K easy PM long intervals (4-7k off 600s-3000s)

Sat:AM 7K easy PM rest

Sun:AM 15-17K easy PM rest.

This adds up to about 100K a week with warmups and cooldowns. If you consider 5k volume norms to be over 120-130K a week then my training truly is low-volume.

1. You replied to a 7 year old question.

2. For TS 20 miles (32km) is low mileage. What you are doing is not low mileage to him.

Did you consider doing most of the volume and aerobic work on a bike and keep the running for more specific work? That would save you back.