Sub 15:00 shape?

Hard to estimate from one workout, not knowing how hard it was and how your PRs and other training are.

I'd put it this way: You do decent volume and the fact that you ran 4 x 800 under 15' pace on short rests + negative splitting after the miles bodes well. But if you have to hang on for dear life to run 14:59 or if you are able to run 14:30ish really depends of the missing datas...

Best regards

Pikachu

The workout was a pretty hard effort. However I did not feel like I was going to throw up or anything. I didn't really have any doubt or worry that I would not hit the pace for each interval. I was tired, but the whole time I thought the workout was doable. Even though I had the workout under control, it was definitely very hard, and I don't think I could have done the 800s any faster. Maybe I could have done the miles faster and still managed to pull off the same 800 times.

My PR is 15:16 from two years ago. I haven't really run a recent track race at all since last year, when I was not in as good shape.

That's a solid workout with not much rest. It's hard to tell for sure, but my guess is that you are in sub-15 shape, but could still have a hard time breaking 15 on your first try. My first 5k of the season is usually pretty slow from lack of speed, competition, and just getting used to the feeling of racing again. Like 15:50 first 5k, 15:10 next one, or 15:20 first 5k, 14:45 end of season. But everyone is different. Some people can race great all season. You might want to plan on going out a little off pace, maybe 73-74 second laps in your first race and go from there.

I would say that workout indicates well under 15:00 shape.

thanks guys, anybody else have thoughts?

bostonxc wrote:

Recently, I did the following workout:

4 x 1600m w/ 30s rest at 4:59, 5:05, 5:01,5:00

jogged 5 min

4 x 800m w/ 30s rest at 2:24, 2:23,2:23, 2:21

I've been running 75-80 mpw for the past 2 months.

What do you think I could run a 5k in right now? Indoors?

Please don't give the answer that I have to run 1 x 5k workout. I want to know what pace is reasonable to go out in.

Yes more info would help. What do your mile pace and tempos look like? Based on this alone I would predict 14:55-15:10 depending on the other variable.

I went low 14:50s last season, and I think I could have handled this workout with more ease than you describe. It would have been tough, but the 4x1600 wouldn't have been terrible, and then it's just a matter of shifting gears and dealing with short rests on the 800s. Although I think it's weird and would never have run it myself.

The 4x1600 was sort of an in-between pace, don't you think? It's not 5k and it's not tempo, so why shoot for 5:00 pace? And 30s rests? Why on earth?

To give you an idea of what I was doing at peak shape, a sample week for me included

Session 1: 4mile tempo, 4 min rest, 2 mile tempo (5:10 average)

Session 2: 3x1600m + 2x800m with 4 min/2 min rests (4:44 average)

Session 3: Some combination of mile pace totaling ~4800m with 2:1 rests. I finished the season just a hair under 4:20 in the mile.

I was doing the same mileage as you and these workouts were always controlled. I always could run faster, but I knew what my paces should be and I stuck to them. Hard efforts, but a long ways from race effort.

Hope that helps.

I would be very surprised if you couldn't break 15:00 right now and wouldn't be surprised to see you run 14:50.

Since it's your first race, play it smooth and run 72s from the gun and see how you feel after 3k. That pace shouldn't be much of an issue and will probably result in a nice negative split.

Good advice overall and those look like great workouts for someone shooting for 14:40-15:00. But I disagree with your implication that a workout has to be exactly 5k pace or exactly tempo pace (which is already a nebulous term) in order to get the full benefits from a workout, as if the fitness benefits suddenly disappear as soon as soon as you start going slower than 4:50s then reappear right when you start hitting 5:10s. I do agree that 30 second rest is a little odd, though. If I were the OP I would have extended the rest to 60 or even 90 seconds and then done 5 or 6 1600s instead of just 4.

bigtool05 wrote:

Good advice overall and those look like great workouts for someone shooting for 14:40-15:00. But I disagree with your implication that a workout has to be exactly 5k pace or exactly tempo pace (which is already a nebulous term) in order to get the full benefits from a workout, as if the fitness benefits suddenly disappear as soon as soon as you start going slower than 4:50s then reappear right when you start hitting 5:10s. I do agree that 30 second rest is a little odd, though. If I were the OP I would have extended the rest to 60 or even 90 seconds and then done 5 or 6 1600s instead of just 4.

I completely agree with you, but many coaches (Jack Daniels included) argue for specificity of a workout and that deviating much from the paces provides a diminishing return. Plus you recover quicker and can handle a greater workload if you are in control during a workout rather than redlining.

Also agree on the rests you suggest and sticking to the 1600s. But I like workouts every now and then that progress from tempo to 5k to mile pace as long as there is a good mix of specific workouts already in my training. It teaches the body to shift gears. It's surprisingly difficult to run 3 or 4 miles of tempo and then a couple miles or 800s at 5k and then a few quarters at mile pace.

I think we're pretty much on the same page. Specificity is definitely very important, but I subscribe more to Canova's understanding of specificity where you need to train a wide range of paces in order to excel at any given event. I would also consider 6x1600 at 5:00 pace to be highly specific training for a guy trying to run 4:45-4:50 pace for a 5k. One advantage it has over strictly hitting 4:45-4:50 pace is that, although you lose a tiny amount of specificity, you can get significantly more volume of work in.

I would be shocked if after those workouts you couldn't break 15.

I honestly would of had a tough time running that workout and I've run under 1440 a few times.

Thanks for the input guys. I know this is from a few months ago, but I wanted to give an update and ask for some more advice.

I ended up running 15:09 on a banked indoor track a few weeks ago. However it was fast race, where I went out in 71s for the first 2 miles (9:29) and then died badly in the last mile (like a 5:04ish last mile).

Given that I will transition to an outdoor track soon, and a more evenly paced race, do you guys think it's possible to drop >9 seconds to go sub 15?

I haven't been able to keep the mileage up recently due to some injury issues. However I have been able to get in some quality workouts since then.

Some workouts I did recently, after the 15:09 race, were the following:

6 x 1000 w/ 2 min rest: 3:05, 3:05, 3:00, 2:59, 2:55, 2:51

and

3200m in 9:59

rest 3 min

2 x 1600m w/ 30s rest in 4:56, 4:53

rest 3 min

4 x 800 w/ 30s rest in 2:21, 2:22, 2:23, 2:20

You are in physical shape to break 15. What have you been doing to get in mental shape to break 15? Most difficult thing will be breaking what you put up in your mind as a barrier. What's your pacing strategy on the track for breaking 15? Even pace? Start out slow and then finish fast? Start out fast and try to hang on? How about throwing in a 10k or 8k race and setting an "equivalent" sub 15k goal?

Thanks another note is that the 6x1000 workout didn't really feel that hard. The 3200 1600 800 workout felt very hard as it should have.

Should I still go out in 72s? Or faster or slower?

go out in 71s

Hey, congrats on the race. You're ready to smash 15:00, so stop thinking of it as a barrier. 14:50 is your barrier.

I agree high-71s is ideal. Just be ready to grind out that last mile no matter what. The last 4 laps should hurt like crazy if you do it right.

What do you expect for competition? Will there be a pack or will you be solo? Is there anyone available to pace you?

Your mistake last race was going out too fast. Go out in 73 or so, but it depends on what the pack does and how fast you can go without using too much energy up.

I am in similar shape to you, and I think you are putting a little too much focus into hammering your workouts - try to run your workouts in a controlled fashion, and focus on getting more comfortable at the paces you are aiming for.

For instance, my workouts in the past couple weeks have been:

2x100 meter strides (17 seconds)

3200 meters (9:57)

4x100 meter strides (16 seconds)

and my next workout was

2x100 meter strides (17.5 seconds)

12x400, 60 seconds rest, (68-69 seconds)

4x100 meter strides (15.5-16 seconds)

Neither of these was right at 5000 meter race pace, but the 3200 got me to run pretty comfortably for a solid effort just slower than race pace, and the 400s did the same thing for a little faster than race pace.

When I look at your 6x1000 workout in particular, I see the hammering of the last couple repeats as unnecessary - closing a workout in 2:55 and 2:51 doesn't do you too much good when it comes to racing. Sure, you are capable of doing it, but that is what racing is for! Unless I only have one race on my schedule, I don't try to have any race-efforts in practice.