I would make that argument. His development of Rupp speaks for itself. Discuss!
I would make that argument. His development of Rupp speaks for itself. Discuss!
Given your first point I would say no but state the rest of your argument.
John McDonnell and Joe Vigil might have something to say about this.
Yes, easily.
By counting Oly Medals, WC Medals, and Major Marathon Medals, it's Jim Bush who is the top college coach.
Wasn't it widely known that Salazar was really the one coaching Rupp while at Oregon?
He did it wrote:
By counting Oly Medals, WC Medals, and Major Marathon Medals, it's Jim Bush who is the top college coach.
When evaluating the success of a COLLEGIATE distance running coach, those criteria -- "Oly Medals, WC Medals, and Major Marathon Medals" -- are relatively meaningless, unless the athlete in question earned said medals while in college (which has rarely been the case). Infinitely more important are national championships (XC and track), All-Americans produced, times, improvement over the course of one's career, etc. Hence why Vin is the GOAT.
I think Lananna isn't even the best ever at Oregon...I would have Dellinger first, Bowerman second, Heinonen third, then Vin. Maybe if he had stuck around longer, he might warrant greater consideration.
McDonnell #1 GOAT
ChuckCJohnsonTCOT wrote:
He did it wrote:By counting Oly Medals, WC Medals, and Major Marathon Medals, it's Jim Bush who is the top college coach.
When evaluating the success of a COLLEGIATE distance running coach, those criteria -- "Oly Medals, WC Medals, and Major Marathon Medals" -- are relatively meaningless, unless the athlete in question earned said medals while in college (which has rarely been the case). Infinitely more important are national championships (XC and track), All-Americans produced, times, improvement over the course of one's career, etc. Hence why Vin is the GOAT.
Jumbo Elliott...
Vin is/was a very good coach. But his special ability is in the realm of selling, communications, administration, and organizational relations. In that sphere, he truly excels.
So, if anyone would like a potent nominee to head up the USTF Association, look no further.
I think you have to look at the caliber of athletes a coach works with before making this decision. How many really good coaches could take Galen Rupp and make him what he is today or has been? How about coaches that consistently take 4:20 guys and turn them into 4:05 guys. Or 15:45 guys in HS into 14:15 guys in college? He gets to work with some of the most talented and elite kids out of HS each year. He does a great job with most of them. So he should be compared to the other few coaches that work with this level of talent and not the other 1,0000.
Yes it is an accomplishment to take a 4:20 kid and get him to 4:05 but it isn't necessarily better than taking a 4:05 HS kid and getting him to 3:59.
I say that because many times that 4:20 kid or 4:40 kid or 5:00 kid comes from inferior HS coaching and all he needs is a solid plan. So is that the coach or is it more that the kid had a huge potential for improvement based on the fact that he simply had little to no guidance in HS?
Taking a kid who is already fast and making him faster can be a real challenge.
First of all we all know it's harder to drop time the faster you are. Second the HS kid that is very fast likely ran higher mileage and is likely to have had good coaching in HS.
It's obvious that a slower HS runner has way more opportunity to drop time in college than a Galen Rupp or a Mac Fleet. How much time is dropped from HS to college shouldn't be a criteria for comparing to a coach that gets the HS studs. Not apples to apples.
Vin getting his already fast HS studs to improve even more in college and win titles in college is a definite statement to his excellence.
He's a Phil Jackson type zen master. Not the greatest but still legendary.
If the measure is by collegiate championships won and by number of all-Americans then there is only one choice - McDonnell. Add to that the non-distance component and the margin only grows.
College is prepation for the medal cahse. The greatest coaches produce the World Oudoor/Summer Olympic/major Marathon medalsts. Guys like Joe Douglas, Tom Telez, Jose Vigil, Bobby Kersee, John Smith, Bob Larsen, Jim Bush have the medals to show for it.