should a mid distance runner be doing high mileage ? I'm at about 35-40miles a week with PRs of 1:55 -800m, 2:27 -1k and 4:20 mile. I do hard 6-8 mile runs 6:30-6:40 pace depending on the feel. I want to run a 4:10 mile and a 1:50 800m. Do you think high mileage will help?
Feedback is greatly appreciated
We just don't have enough information to give a helpful answer. The truth is, upping your mileage could be very beneficial if you don't get injured, but the risk of injury is also higher. That's why people generally recommend small increases in mileage. Also, it takes a while for your body to adjust to more mileage. How long depends on your age and your biomechanics. Especially if you've had a major injury that your body compensated for and....blah blah aww fuggit.
feedbacker wrote:
We just don't have enough information to give a helpful answer. The truth is, upping your mileage could be very beneficial if you don't get injured, but the risk of injury is also higher. That's why people generally recommend small increases in mileage. Also, it takes a while for your body to adjust to more mileage. How long depends on your age and your biomechanics. Especially if you've had a major injury that your body compensated for and....blah blah aww fuggit.
Thank you
But why do you run your runs so fast/hard? I would recommend upping mileage while decreasing pace.
These times you run are pretty good for so few miles a week. You have some potential.
don´t up your mileage. try to hit 40miles with increasing regularity, not 35-40. 2:27-1k looks promising.
but you should change one thing for sure. run more quality miles. there´s sthg. wrong with your so called "hard 6-8 mile runs". you should run your 6-8 milers way harder, 6:30-6:40 pace isn´t hard enough for someone capable of running sub 2:30/1k.
start with at least one weekly run in 5:30 pace. in trouble to hold it? start with, let´s say, 4miles at 5:30 at first. sooner or later you will hit 6miles (or even more) in 5:30 pace. or you run 8miles slow at the beginning, but with a strong finish at 5:30 pace for some miles.
do this next to your workouts, this will boost your aerobic system and you will be stronger.
Roll wrote:
should a mid distance runner be doing high mileage ? I'm at about 35-40miles a week with PRs of 1:55 -800m, 2:27 -1k and 4:20 mile. I do hard 6-8 mile runs 6:30-6:40 pace depending on the feel. I want to run a 4:10 mile and a 1:50 800m. Do you think high mileage will help?
Feedback is greatly appreciated
High mileage for Hyde , a 4 minute miler was up to 140 with 4 high end aerobic.
Mileage for Sullivan who could run a 1:53 at age 14, was 100 base miles and he was a 3:31 guy.
People want immediate results without looking 5 years down the road. So
either you are a FT guy, or you are totally undeveloped aerobically. You could explore both pathways, but it would take time to see what you are.
Steve Ovett used to do about 120-130 miles a week in winter. you can google his training methods. He won 40+ consecutive races against the best milers in the world back in the '70s.
come on, guys. that´s almost comical: "step up from 35miles to 130miles! do it like ovett! we all can do so!"
Roll wrote:
should a mid distance runner be doing high mileage ? I'm at about 35-40miles a week with PRs of 1:55 -800m, 2:27 -1k and 4:20 mile. I do hard 6-8 mile runs 6:30-6:40 pace depending on the feel. I want to run a 4:10 mile and a 1:50 800m. Do you think high mileage will help?
Feedback is greatly appreciated
Yes it will help. Start doing 50 for a few weeks and see how it feels. Mileage is about progression and patience.
If you run 2:27 and 4:20, you seem to be lacking the endurance to extend that speed to the mile. I ran 2:27/4:10 in HS. Overall volume wasn't very high (45ish in the winter), but I focused on developing aerobic strength with a solid weekly long run (80- 90 mins until I cut it down to taper).
That being said, you express a desire to increase both your 800 and mile time, which within one season could be challenging. If you focus on increasing your mileage this winter, keep that the same (or less) during outdoor and then add in the speed work necessary for decreasing your 800 time.
The short answer is yes, mileage will help. I think you could pretty safely jump into ~50 mpw and see some good improvements in your mile time within a couple months. If you run 1:55 though, mileage isn't going to get you to 1:50 - you need to work on your baseline speed and speed endurance.
Roll wrote:
I do hard 6-8 mile runs 6:30-6:40 pace depending on the feel. I want to run a 4:10 mile and a 1:50 800m. Do you think high mileage will help?
Feedback is greatly appreciated
The fact that 6:30 - 6:40 for 6 to 8 miles is "hard" for you as a 4:20 guy tells me that you're totally under-developed aerobically. That should be an easy pace. Even for a 5:00 to 5:15 guy that should be easy pace.
My prescription: Time. Renato Canova says it takes 3 to 5 years to fully develop the aerobic house. Based on my experience, I agree with him. If you need quick-fix stuff within the season, do intervals. If you plan to run after the 2015 season, do long-term planning and start building your aerobic reservoir now by just continuing to put in the miles at whatever pace keeps your heart at 150-165 beats per minute, and increase the pace as you make aerobic gains.
With regards to the question of how many miles, 6-8 is just fine. I definitely wouldn't push it beyond 10 per day for your goals.
Roll,
I believe it depends a little on how many miles you have been training at.
Generally to answer your question, I know plenty of middle distance runners who run 70 miles a week.
If that is what you consider high mileage and all.
I wouldn't suggest running much more than that as a mid distance runner.
Nick Symmonds I believe averages 70 or a so a week.
I also know a runner who ran 30 to 35 his entire college career and ran 1:53 in the 800m. When he graduated he bumped up to 60 to 65 miles a week and he dropped below 1:50 and ran a 3:43 1500m.
I like to call that effect wringing out the towel. Where you get as much as you can out of a certain weekly mileage with quality workouts, then the simple bumping up of mileage will produce some drops in times.
Hope this helped!
John Walker believed in it....If I remember correctly from reading Hirsch's 1979 "Runner" book that featured he, Rodgers, Shorter, Stack.....I figured out 127 miles as he described 6 mile runs in the morning, 7 mile runs at night and 25 mile runs on Sunday...all at I think he said 6:20 pace?
Some people just aren't aerobic guys. I can't tempo to save my life, and I got down to 4:10 for a mile. 6:30 pace for 8 miles isn't what I would call "hard", but its not a recovery run, either.
OP, your best bet is to try and figure it out as you go. Experiment with small increases in mileage, try to work your times down slowly and steadily. Keep what works, discard what doesn't. The more information you arm yourself with the better you'll be at figuring out what works.
I'm like an 18 minute 5k guy, 5:10 mile guy and I can easily run 6:30-6:40 for 6-8 miles. I do it very often, and sometimes do 13 mile training runs at 6:30-6:35 (which is pushing it a bit for me). Something is wrong.
[quote]TMLT wrote:
I'm like an 18 minute 5k guy, 5:10 mile guy and I can easily run 6:30-6:40 for 6-8 miles. I do it very often, and sometimes do 13 mile training runs at 6:30-6:35 (which is pushing it a bit for me). Something is wrong
I guess I shouldn't have used the word hard. But I consider 6:30 pace fast for an 8mile run. Also an 18 min 5k guy going 6:30 pace for 13 mile run? That's like 30-40 secs off your PR pace. That has has to be at least a tad bit difficult for you.
Everyone is different. I've ran 14:30 and 4:06 mile and I rarely go faster than 6:30 pace. I feel best doing about 7:00-7:20 pace and having quality workouts.
This is long, I apologize. I obsess over this stuff and just love it. I promise if you read this, you will have your socks blown off...eventually.
I agree with a ton of stuff that's been said. I experimented with high mileage earlier this year. I found CONSISTENCY to be huge. BUT I kept increasing. I was feeling aerobically SO GOOD at 60-65 miles per week. I wish I had stayed there for my training cycle (6 months) and then increased a little more during the following cycle to like 75-80 mpw. Instead I felt so good, that I kept building to 90-100 mpw until I ended up with two hurt solei muscles. I was doing intense marathon training and all the best marathoners do high mileage. Even though I'm 29, I hadn't consistently done more than 50 mpw at any given time. The guys doing 120-150 mpw built up the ability to do that over YEARS. Sure, there are always exceptions. The guy who doesn't get lung cancer after 40+ years of smoking. Then there's my grandma who died of lung cancer this year and didn't smoke a single cigarette--my grandpa smoked a ton. Always gonna be exceptions.
The answer to most of life's questions is "it depends". Should you up your mileage? It depends on...
1. How consistent have you been in your training? Has your mpw been consistently 35-40? Or have you been up and down, some weeks 1 run, other weeks 40 miles?
2. When you warm-up, cool-down and do your 6-8 mile runs, are you starting out slow and gradually speeding up as your body suggests? Or are you running pretty much the same pace all the time?...fast.
3. How many workouts per week are you doing?
If you've been consistent. If you're starting out slow and running smart, I think increasing 1 mile per workout done each week up to a max of 10 (if you're doing 10 workouts a week) per 3-week period is fine and then paying CLOSE attention to your body and making sure you feel good in every way. So assuming you've done 3 weeks of 40 mpw in a row, and assuming you're running 7 workouts per week, then I would increase to 47 mpw for the next 3 weeks and see what happens.
THE ULTIMATE BEST THING you can do is read. READ. READ and READ some more. Letsrun is a great forum, but everyone is different and everyone has opinions based on what they or so-and-so did. That works. That's great. You however have a different body, different blood-type, different dietary needs, maybe you're done growing, maybe not...and the list of factors and considerations goes on and on. Read, research, plan, apply, repeat. That's my recipe for awesome.
I live in Provo, Utah. I did an internship with the BYU Men's Cross Country team. Say what you will, but they consistently pull out top finishes and the majority of their runners are from Utah. I also work at Timpanogos High School in Orem. They took 12th overall at Nike Cross Nationals. I also talked at length with Connor Mantz's (top Utah runner and Foot Locker beast!) coach on a bus to Foot Locker Regionals--all these coaches/teams are using some form of Daniels' Running Formula mixed with other stuff. I also have loved John Kellogg's unpublished book of running wisdom compiled by another guy.
Here are the great running resources I have compiled:
Books:
Daniels' Running Formula by Jack Daniels (look for it on Amazon.com)
Training Wisdom of John Kellogg (use the following link to get to this free book:
http://distancegoldmine.weebly.com/uploads/1/5/2/0/15207232/jk_collection.pdf
)
Running to the Top by Arthur Lydiard (amazon has it, not expensive)
Road to the Top by Joe Vigil (read the comments on Amazon.com to find out how you can get the book for super cheap)
Running with Lydiard by Lydiard/Gilmour
Born to Run by Christopher McDougall
Thrive: The Vegan Nutrition Guide by Brendan Brazier
More Fire: How to Run the Kenyan Way by Toby Tanser
The Greatest: The Haile Gebrselassie Story by Jim Denison
Tapering and Peaking for Optimal Performance by Inigo Mujika
Factors Affecting Distance Running Performance by Steve Magness (free book somewhere on this site:
http://www.scienceofrunning.com/
)
Websites:
Letsrun wouldn't let me post the websites because it said it was potential spam...keep searching man.
Never stop learning. Never stop searching. No one has all the answers, but there are some who get pretty dang close.
Aerobic Reservoir wrote:
The fact that 6:30 - 6:40 for 6 to 8 miles is "hard" for you as a 4:20 guy tells me that you're totally under-developed aerobically. That should be an easy pace. Even for a 5:00 to 5:15 guy that should be easy pace.
Bull. 6:40 shouldn't be crazy for a 4:20 guy. But that's probably faster-than-marathon pace for pretty much any 5:00+ guy. In the context of fairly hard workouts and a moderately long run, 6:30-6:40 would trash anyone that slow.
wow thanks a lot man. Great responses all of you!