Does nutrition HAVE to be such a soft science?

...kinda yes to both i think. could definitely be less "mushy" with more research etc

The reason the field of nutrition is such an abysmal failure is that it's been dominated by government for decades. Instead of being committed to good science, the USDA bureaucrats were primarily concerned with pleasing their friends in the grain and dairy industries. The medical community, being under the rule of government generally, in particular the FDA, which cares only about pharmas and nothing about lifestyle, is about 20 years behind the rest of the world when it comes to nutrition. Nothing can "be done" except oppose government intellectual control of medicine, health, and food.

it has to sell to the masses. that is it.

It is tuff stuff, only geek and nerd can graduate it with mastery of SCIENCE. Grain and dairy is good, good Greek ways. Macedonia. But too much Big Meat Company guy encourage "jocks" in the "science." This is whys you stick with Micro bioloogy

Love of Lactate wrote:

The reason the field of nutrition is such an abysmal failure is that it's been dominated by government for decades. Instead of being committed to good science, the USDA bureaucrats were primarily concerned with pleasing their friends in the grain and dairy industries. The medical community, being under the rule of government generally, in particular the FDA, which cares only about pharmas and nothing about lifestyle, is about 20 years behind the rest of the world when it comes to nutrition. Nothing can "be done" except oppose government intellectual control of medicine, health, and food.

You think the rest of the world knows more about nutrition? Or, you mean just a few healthier countries. The majority of the world knows jack-sheet about nutrition.

Love of Lactate wrote:

The reason the field of nutrition is such an abysmal failure is that it's been dominated by government for decades. Instead of being committed to good science, the USDA bureaucrats were primarily concerned with pleasing their friends in the grain and dairy industries. The medical community, being under the rule of government generally, in particular the FDA, which cares only about pharmas and nothing about lifestyle, is about 20 years behind the rest of the world when it comes to nutrition. Nothing can "be done" except oppose government intellectual control of medicine, health, and food.

Translation: it's a gov't conspiracy!!! And: Everyone needs to go paleo!!!!

(and lol @ the big evil grain and dairy industries. They might have influence, sure, but you don't think the meat industry does?? C'mon now. Big Dairy has influence, but Big Meat doesn't? Think about what you're saying here).

Also: because there has been a gov't conspiracy to make us fat, why don't you tell us: A) what we REALLY should be eating, and/or B) what the "rest of the world" knows/is eating that we don't/aren't.

Should be entertaining!

I'm not sure that nutrition really is a "soft" science. Plenty of physiology, biochem, and medical programs do serious nutrition research.

Who cares if the meat producers are funding the "researches" that promote low-carb diet? We know that meat is good and grains are bad.

Look at those scrawny fat, rice-eating Asians. If they stop eating rice, and eat more meat, they will become buffed.

It's hard to come up with anything solid in nutrition because it's difficult to experiment on people and many of the effects of nutrients on the human body take a long time to observe.

you realize it's the job of the FDA to make things hard for pharma, right? do realize how much bureaucracy & red tape a pharma company has to go through to get a drug approved? clinical trials ain't cheap, let alone multiple ones with different regulations (thus FDA regulation is the real reason for high initial drug/therapy costs).

Love of Lactate wrote:

the FDA, which cares only about pharmas

There\'s a metric shyte-tonne of \'mushy\' pseudo-science about nutrition out there, but the actual scientific research being done is very high quality. Of course, this high quality research isn\'t very accessible to those of us (myself included) who haven\'t spent our professional careers building vocabulary and background information.As for popular stuff, stuff for sale at Amazon.com, there just isn\'t a market for scholarship-based nutrition information packaged for a mass audience. There is a market for fad diet books, so publishers pay authors to write stuff that sells. For more a detailed critique of the current state of nutrition research, read The China Study, it\'s solid (if not mainstream) scientific approach is based on evidence and it also will be satisfying to those who like a good conspiracy theory. (IMHO, it\'s more greed and ignorance than malice and planning) We have a market economy, so we get the nutrition information that people are willing pay the most for.

false premise wrote:

I\'m not sure that nutrition really is a \"soft\" science. Plenty of physiology, biochem, and medical programs do serious nutrition research.

Koppenberg wrote:

As for popular stuff, stuff for sale at Amazon.com, there just isn't a market for scholarship-based nutrition information packaged for a mass audience. There is a market for fad diet books, so publishers pay authors to write stuff that sells.

You said it, and those "fad diet books" sell like hotcakes. People are just suckers for the "NEW diet that will IMPROVE EVERYTHING in your life!", and "EVERYTHING you have learned was a BIG FAT LIE!" and "It's a CONSPIRACY! Read the REAL TRUTH about health and nutrition and medicine!" People eat that shite up. That's a much more exciting, and "sexy" selling point than:

"The status quo. Most of what we've been telling you is true, but we will never know for sure. A moderate, mostly plant-based diet, with little junk or fast food, with the proper amount of calories, combined with exercise, is the best we can do." WHO the hell is gonna read that?? Boooooring.

People want to CHANGE THEIR LIVES! And learn the HIDDEN TRUTH! And beat back the CONSPIRACY OF BIG GOV'T BAD ADVICE! This is the basis for all fad diet movements, this need for something NEW, and BIG, and TOP-SECRET! From a psychological viewpoint, it's understandable, but still kinda sad. And the internet has just made it worse, because people push and blog this garbage all over the internet.

When it comes to rocket science, we leave it to the rocket scientists. When it comes to nutrition, everyone's a freakin expert. If we ate only what the dietitians told us to eat, America would be a totally different place.

Anyone with any understanding of nutrition knows what he said. But you didn't...which speaks volumes. Listen to the government. They have your best interests at heart. What a freaking joke you are.

You are pushing you old "science" all over this message board. Others are just combating years and years of myth building by government agencies. Follow me little sheep...follow me.

Most of it is common sense. People generally know what's good for them and what isn't. The biggest issue isn't a lack of knowledge, it's more like not (for whatever reason) putting it into practise.

Xfit_Idiot_the_Fake_One wrote:

Look at those scrawny fat, rice-eating Asians. If they stop eating rice, and eat more meat, they will become buffed.

Obviously a troll impersonator but I'll bite. While Asians historically are rather SKINNY, they also lack any muscle definition. That, to a large degree, depends on the following factors:

- soy based diet (lowers testosterone)

- lack of digestible protein (meat and - yes - dairy)

- no culture for strength training (e.g. CrossFit is virtually unknown over there)

There are a few examples and I will post a few pics later of really JACKED Asian bodybuilders who prove that with the right diet you can excel, no matter what your background is....

If you're looking for a definitive answer on optimal diet and nutrition, you're not going to find it. Humans are quite adaptable to a variety of diets. This is (partly) why we've been so successful as a species.

Xfit_guy_the_real_1 wrote:

Xfit_Idiot_the_Fake_One wrote:

Look at those scrawny fat, rice-eating Asians. If they stop eating rice, and eat more meat, they will become buffed.

Obviously a troll impersonator but I'll bite. While Asians historically are rather SKINNY, they also lack any muscle definition. That, to a large degree, depends on the following factors:

- soy based diet (lowers testosterone)

- lack of digestible protein (meat and - yes - dairy)

- no culture for strength training (e.g. CrossFit is virtually unknown over there)

There are a few examples and I will post a few pics later of really JACKED Asian bodybuilders who prove that with the right diet you can excel, no matter what your background is....

1. The mongols were probably history's best fighters, conquerors and travelers

2. Have you SEEN Pacific Islanders, specifically Polynesians, Samoans? HUGE guys.

3. If you're talking about e. Asians you're wrong too because you don't get around. At my school in the Midwest I see tons of (probably rich) six foot three and up Korean guys. I even saw a Chinese (probably rich) six footer girl! Did you know that a conspicuous amount of history's tallest women were from China? Yeah the eight foot plus freaks. I'm not trying to advocate, just saying you're average Caucasian American middle class young doofus doesn't know squat about the world. East Asia, being incredibly old, vast, naturally diverse and full of people, also has incredible linguistic, cultural and genetic diversity. Get an education! I bet some forum goers couldn't name more than one hands count of topographical markers of E. asia.