Importance of hip range of motion

I don't know anything about stride length but you sound like an injury waiting to happen. It may take a while, I was 48, but last year at this time I was about:

1. left leg 85 right 75 degrees (Goal: 135 degrees)

2. left 15 right 10 (Goal: 60 degrees)

3. left 49 right 54 (Goal: Horizontal... 0 degrees)

In March my right IT band basically blew up. I can't run yet. I can walk up stairs but not quite down stairs yet.

Don't let it get any worse.

wwwooah that old guy is flexible

fisky wrote:

1. Lie on back. Keep one leg straight. Lift other straight leg past vertical to 135 degree angle.

Given your thigh is never lifted above parallel while running, why would you need more than 90 degrees angle in this? (Unless you are doing steeple or any other kind of hurdling.)

That would seem sensible.

Just Another Hobby Jogger wrote:

fisky wrote:

1. Lie on back. Keep one leg straight. Lift other straight leg past vertical to 135 degree angle.

Given your thigh is never lifted above parallel while running, why would you need more than 90 degrees angle in this? (Unless you are doing steeple or any other kind of hurdling.)

I have no idea. I'm hoping someone with more knowledge of biomechanics can chip in if there's some valid reason for such extreme flexibility.

No! Don't skip the pseudoscience, esp Ryan Hall running up the skyscraper.

Extreme flexibility reduces the spring effect of connective tissue and muscle, and is therefore counterproductive for distance runners.

B. mechanic wrote:

Extreme flexibility reduces the spring effect of connective tissue and muscle, and is therefore counterproductive for distance runners.

Myth. Jumpers and hurdlers can easily perform those movements, and are FAR springier (and faster) than distance runners. Huge difference between joint flexibility and internal muscle tension of primary motor muscles. An even more extreme example is ballet dancers.

You don't need that much straight leg raise but the hip extension is required for fast efficient running.

Turnover > ROM

It's not about absolute springiness, it's about the economy of one spring. Stiff muscles are more economical than compliant ones. It has been shown in several studies that the hamstring stiffness correlates well with running economy: the "worse" you perform in a sit-and-reach test, the less oxygen you will need for running at a specific speed. Same thing with plantar flexors.

fisky wrote:

I can't even get close to those angles... for me.

1. left leg 90 right 97 degrees (Goal: 135 degrees)

2. left 24 right 23 (Goal: 60 degrees)

3. left 39 right 34 (Goal: Horizontal... 0 degrees)

I do dynamic stretches before a workout, but I've always thought that static stretches were overrated. Still, I'm going to add some static stretches to my routine. I'll report back in a couple weeks if there is any difference in angles and how I feel in track workouts. It will be an anecdotal story of one person.

Economy is key wrote:

It's not about absolute springiness, it's about the economy of one spring. Stiff muscles are more economical than compliant ones.

I think you are almost there. A spring is most economical when it is matched to the collision.

For example, a trampoline has a more suitable spring constant for energy return for a jumping human than the spring constant of a slab of steel, hence you can jump higher (because you can store and return more potential energy). Another example would be the material for a bow (as in a bow and arrow). You want a spring constant neither too high nor too low; it should be a suitable match to the rate of energy loading.

I'm with you though in that the evidence suggests that when you train a muscle with static stretching to extend beyond that which is required by your chosen activity then you start to adversely affect economy (because you shift the range through which the muscle can adjust the spring tension).

I'll still be interested in the results of your experimentation Fisky. I hope you report back.

I'm stretching in the morning and evening, plus a very limited stretch routine after a workout. Results of testing over 4 days are shown below with the first entry the base point. On day 4, I experienced a minor nerve pinch on the left hip flexor when pushing off that caused me to abort the workout halfway through as a precaution. I haven't run yet today to see if the nerve pain is still a problem. No noticeable change in performance or feel while running. Noticeable minor muscle soreness that I'm treating with a roller.

Hamstring

Left 90 97 112

Rt 106 101 105

Hip Extension

Lf 24 41 51

Rt 23 37 50

Hip Flexion

Lf 141 150 161

Rt 142 154 164

Anyone know how to make columns of numbers line up properly?

Update after seven days. Data shown below for days 1, 2, 3, and 7. I've done no stretching yet today and it shows in the decreased ROM.

Hamstring

Left 90 97 112 101

Rt 106 101 105 103

Hip Extension

Lf 24 41 51 39

Rt 23 37 50 54

Hip Flexion

Lf 141 150 161 150

Rt 142 154 164 150

Changes after a week.

Left Hamstring +11 degrees

Right Ham -3 degrees

Hip Extension (straight leg lift while on stomach)

Left +15 degrees

Rght +21 degrees

Hip Flexion

Left +9

Rght +8

I did some speedwork yesterday and I haven't stretched yet today, so that accounts for the decline from day 3 to day 7.

I'm still experiencing a nerve pinch issue on the left quad that adversely affects my ability to accelerate when starting an interval. This started after the first stretching session. I'm rolling and massaging it. Yesterday, I ran my fastest 200m interval since summer. I'm not attributing it to stretching. It's just an observation. I'll continue reporting for another week or so.

interesting thread. how are you measuring the angles?

I measure the angle with a clinometer app for my smartphone.

I line up beside a wall, stretch, and align a map handle from my hip joint to the ankle joint. Then, I hold the handle against the wall so it won't move while I measure the angle by aligning my phone with the mop handle. For the hip flexor, I pull my bent knee up to my chest and align the handle from the hip joint to the knee joint. Obviously, there's some error.

Subjectively, I've noticed two things after 9 days.

1. Stretching makes me sore and has caused a nerve pinch pain in my left quad when trying to accelerate.

2. After only one set of 20 second stretch-and-hold drills, flexibility increases by >10% in each direction. That's a lot! I'm going to add these stretch and hold drills to my pre-interval warmup to see if, subjectively, there is any difference in my next workout.

*mop* handle

Update after 22 days. Data shown below for days 1, 2, 3, 7, and 22..

Hamstring (laying on back, lifting straight leg over head)

Left 90 97 112 101 103

Rt 106 101 105 103 110

Hip Extension (laying on stomach with straight legs, lifting straight leg up)

Lf 24 41 51 39 50

Rt 23 37 50 54 51

Hip Flexion (laying on back, pulling one knee to chest)

Lf 141 150 161 150 159

Rt 142 154 164 150 160

Changes after three weeks.

Left Hamstring +13 degrees

Right Ham +4 degrees

Hip Extension (straight leg lift while on stomach)

Left + 26 degrees

Rght +28 degrees

Hip Flexion

Left +18

Rght +16

So, I have an improved range of motion in all measurements. Does it make any difference? Subjectively, I don't know.

I ran my fastest 200m in about a year last Tuesday, but there could be no correlation to stretching. I tend to be less sore when I get up in the morning. This is probably due to stretching before bed, but whether it carries over to running... I don't know.

I have some tweaks in my left knee. Was it caused by stretching or did stretching keep it from being more severe? I don't know. The only thing I've determined so far is that FOR ME, the old saw about stretching makes you slower is not true. As a non-stretcher who has been stretching for three weeks, my times are getting better.

I intend to continue doing my new 2-3 stretches because they're simple and I don't really see any downside. If I notice anything else, I'll report it.