Take English or History majors.
Do you really need to pay $100,000 or more in order to get better at analyzing papers and writing articles?
Yes, these two skills are important, but are they anywhere near worth $100,000 especially when both the internet and hardcover books can help you, for the FRACTION of the cost?
USA's college education system is just confusing. Tens of thousands of dollars for a degree in which any sane person can learn him/herself with some willpower and effort.
because you practically get blackballed from much of the professional community if you don't have a degree.
the educational system is obviously outdated, but it's so big that'll it'll take a revolution to blow it up. that revolution is coming, thankfully.
I don't want to be stuck in a go-nowhere $90k/year job.
You aren't paying for the skill. You're paying for the credential that says you have that skill and like anything else, you pay the going rate. No amount of willpower and effort is going to get a school to give you a degree unless you've attended and paid.
HRE wrote:
You aren't paying for the skill. You're paying for the credential that says you have that skill and like anything else, you pay the going rate. No amount of willpower and effort is going to get a school to give you a degree unless you've attended and paid.
Not only this, but despite what anyone says, or what the popular thing to say these days is, there is value to the experience of going to college. There is only so much you can teach yourself.
fdsadsfdfs wrote:
I don't want to be stuck in a go-nowhere $90k/year job.
_________
Do your 25-30 years in that job, you would probably walk away at the ripe age of 62 with a pension for life of about 68k, with benefits.
That may be true. But, how do you not be embarrassed knowing that you've got such a crappy, low-paying job?
HRE wrote:
You aren't paying for the skill. You're paying for the credential that says you have that skill and like anything else, you pay the going rate. No amount of willpower and effort is going to get a school to give you a degree unless you've attended and paid.
That is a good point, but when you pay for that credential, its "impact" on the employer is going to be different based on which institution the credential is from (in most cases).
The best example I could give are Law schools... both Liberty Law and Yale Law have roughly the same costs($60,000 - 70k a year, tuition + living expense), and you'll learn the same crap at both places, but a Yale Law credential will have far more worth.
That's why I think the US college tuition system is flawed.
What makes you think paying a $100,000 for a degree is going to get you a better job?
Lots are under the impression that a college degree is highly valued, when in fact there is an oversaturation of degree holders.
"The screening effect" economics. Tells people you have what it takes and are hard working because you graduated med. school, grad school, got a diploma, ect.
nonsense! wrote:
That is a good point, but when you pay for that credential, its "impact" on the employer is going to be different based on which institution the credential is from (in most cases).
The best example I could give are Law schools... both Liberty Law and Yale Law have roughly the same costs($60,000 - 70k a year, tuition + living expense), and you'll learn the same crap at both places, but a Yale Law credential will have far more worth.
That's why I think the US college tuition system is flawed.
Nothing in your statement indicates that there is any flaw on the US college system. It indicates that the flaw is in employers' and graduates' minds. If people are willing to pay too much for a product, that is not the business' fault. It's the buyer's choice and fault.
You sound like a Republican, all expecting people to take responsibility for their own decisions. Absurd, are you!
A degree makes you more employable than a person without one. The real issue is the rate at which people are earning qualifications is outstripping the ability to make jobs to accommodate them. Education is easy, creating jobs is hard. The West will continue to evolve into a system in which skills are in surplus and the important factor in remaining in the middle class will be your connections, similar to the Chinese guangxi model.
Ifitwas me wrote:
Do your 25-30 years in that job, you would probably walk away at the ripe age of 62 with a pension for life of about 68k, with benefits.
There are no more pensions after your (baby boomer) generation sucked them dry by taking out more than they paid in. Thanks for destroying pensions and generally ruining the world.
The only thing your guaranteed after 25-30 years on the job nowadays is that your position will be obsolete, the public company you work for will go bankrupt, or your job will be moved to india.
It's unlikely that those without a degree would understand the charts.
Okay, then, it's time to end the system kids.Instead of believing in profit, pensions, and tooth fairies, move the entire system to another direction.But that would be socialism right, or not American, or crazy.GNH is the future.
heyyo wrote:
There are no more pensions after your (baby boomer) generation sucked them dry by taking out more than they paid in. Thanks for destroying pensions and generally ruining the world.
The only thing your guaranteed after 25-30 years on the job nowadays is that your position will be obsolete, the public company you work for will go bankrupt, or your job will be moved to india.
HRE wrote:
You aren't paying for the skill. You're paying for the credential that says you have that skill and like anything else, you pay the going rate. No amount of willpower and effort is going to get a school to give you a degree unless you've attended and paid.
You seem proud of that, as if having to pay for your own apprenticeship were an intelligent way to train a workforce. It would not happen at all if it weren't for the blank check provided to students by the federal student aid system, which allows industries to refuse to train their own employees and let the taxpayers pay instead. This cartoonishly "pro-business" environment contributed to the collapse of the US economy.
That this apprenticeship is often just window-dressing, a $100,000 accreditation process rather than necessary training or education, only makes it more ridiculous. What the hell is the point of that? If you have the skills already, just pass a couple of tests and you should be hired.
The reason it happens is that, like most of the US economy, education is a bubble trading in unnecessary, redundant and frivolous services. And it is, co-dependently with other major economic sectors, rife with nepotism and fail-proof. The economy is not run by people with skills but by people with connections. Neither government nor industry is going to pop the education bubble because it employs too many people, many of them their friends.
Most American jobs produce commodities that have no need-based value and have to have value added by regulation, aggressive advertising or market manipulation. Degrees are not really needed for most jobs, but employers can afford to demand them because the market is glutted with degree holders, thanks to market manipulation by the feds.
A degree doesn't need to be anywhere close to 100k. Unless the student goes to a very prestigious, high ranking school for their field, then they're retarded for paying 100k. I'm only talking about undergrad.
Community college for 2 yrs + 2 yrs at a state university is what... 40k max? Sadly there's a massive stigma against community college because people are stupid.