1st Freshman was 39th (Sam Wharton). Worst place ever for 1st Frosh??

He's a redshirt frosh too. Winner of NXN two years ago.

So who was the first true frosh then?

Wasn't Dohner the first frosh a few years ago in the 60 somethings?

Edward Teach wrote:

So who was the first true frosh then?

Gilbert Kirui from Iona in 61st, but how old is he?

Fftrtfffftffttfftgftgt wrote:

Edward Teach wrote:

So who was the first true frosh then?

Gilbert Kirui from Iona in 61st, but how old is he?

..or McDonald (Wisconsin) in 75th, but he's born in 1994, I believe...

Frctdcdgvgfgvfvgf wrote:

Fftrtfffftffttfftgftgt wrote:

Gilbert Kirui from Iona in 61st, but how old is he?

..or McDonald (Wisconsin) in 75th, but he's born in 1994, I believe...

So I give it to Andrew Rafla from Boise in 83rd. He has a 5k PR of 15:18.

Morgan McDonald is actually born 04/23/1996, so if anything is on the young side for a freshman, check your facts

No. I was the top freshman one year and only placed 68th. But that was back when you had only 3 high school runners under 9:00 for 3200 instead of 28.

And at that time there were 15 or so 24-27 year old foreign runners competing in the NCAA.

There was a time when after the NCAA age rule was put in place that you had top freshman like Kennedy, Goucher, Sullivan, and Ritzenhein come in and place top 4 against weaker competition. And those guys all probably would still have done that this year but they were rare.

Today you would have to be a stud capable of running under 14:00 for 5k in high school be expected to do that and there hasn't been an American freshman with those early credentials since Chris Derrick.

waddup wrote:

Morgan McDonald is actually born 04/23/1996, so if anything is on the young side for a freshman, check your facts

His Bio on the Wisconsin roster states that he was youth champion in 2010. That would be guys born in 93 or 94, then it says that he went to the 2012 world juniors (again that would be for guys born in 93 or 94). If he is indeed born in 96 and went to world juniors in 2012, he is AMAZING.

Who has the right "facts". You or me?

Cftvvfttvfvtfvtf wrote:

...

Who has the right "facts". You or me?

Before you answer. The IAAF site states that he's born in 1996, like you indicate. So you had the right facts.

He's therefore the top freshman.

Cftvvfttvfvtfvtf wrote:

waddup wrote:

Morgan McDonald is actually born 04/23/1996, so if anything is on the young side for a freshman, check your facts

His Bio on the Wisconsin roster states that he was youth champion in 2010. That would be guys born in 93 or 94, then it says that he went to the 2012 world juniors (again that would be for guys born in 93 or 94). If he is indeed born in 96 and went to world juniors in 2012, he is AMAZING.

Who has the right "facts". You or me?

He did come 33rd at world junior xc as a 16 year old, and thus is still eligible to compete there as a junior next year. Maybe he is AMAZING. The fact that he was 183rd today at 3km shows his inexperience, but he was still able to come through for 75th. Could come through big next few years

33 in World Juniors at 16 is phenomenal for a non-African, The Wisconsin team choked. It happens. They will be better next year going through that. experience.

I watched the race online and that was simply the weirdest NCAA XC champ race I can remember. Most years some top individual runner with no team strategy would force the pace to get away from the pack and throw down an honest effort.

15:43 at 5k?

George Atlas wrote:

No. I was the top freshman one year and only placed 68th. But that was back when you had only 3 high school runners under 9:00 for 3200 instead of 28.

And at that time there were 15 or so 24-27 year old foreign runners competing in the NCAA.

There was a time when after the NCAA age rule was put in place that you had top freshman like Kennedy, Goucher, Sullivan, and Ritzenhein come in and place top 4 against weaker competition. And those guys all probably would still have done that this year but they were rare.

Today you would have to be a stud capable of running under 14:00 for 5k in high school be expected to do that and there hasn't been an American freshman with those early credentials since Chris Derrick.

There was this true freshman from an American high school named Ed Chesarek that did quite well in 2013.

George Atlas wrote:

There was a time when after the NCAA age rule was put in place that you had top freshman like Kennedy, Goucher, Sullivan, and Ritzenhein come in and place top 4 against weaker competition. And those guys all probably would still have done that this year but they were rare.

Today you would have to be a stud capable of running under 14:00 for 5k in high school be expected to do that and there hasn't been an American freshman with those early credentials since Chris Derrick.

There was another top 10 freshman Derrick's year (and the top frosh of them all DNF'd). Plus, just last year we had a frosh finish single digits. Not 4th, but in the grand scheme of things, 6th-8th vs 4th ain't too much different (moreso for someone with 3 years of eligibility remaining).

Anyone know what happened to Dan Curts of Iowa State? He was 5th at the Midwest Regional. Didn't see him in the Nationals results.

I think it's cyclical in regards to talented freshman. Last year was a really heavy year with 3 in the top 10, and another who had the talent and times to do so (McGorty). I definitely thought there would be a higher up freshman, but I thought it would be Kai Wilmot. He redshirted this season but the guy is clutch in big races. He'll probably pull a Wharton and be a redshirt frosh NXN champ all american. There were also a lot of team runners in the top 40 this year. That maybe because of the sit and kick style of the race or otherwise. And a race like that could kill off a lot of freshman who may not have very developed kicks. Also I saw Cerake Geberkidane of OSU up near the front for the first 4K or so and then he faded hard. I didn't think he'd get all american, but thats obviously him being inexperienced. The only other freshman i thought would be good enough before the season to be AA is Blake Haney. But he couldn't even make Oregon's top 7 and it looks like they wasted one of his seasons.

Next year, Maton, Dressel, and Fisher could be top 20. Maybe even Anderson, but that depends on where he goes.