Greater Boston, Florida Track Club, Jamul Toads

gbtc is still around but they compete with the BAA and NB Boston for Boston's best runners. Florida Track club decided to focus on gallowalkers instead of elites. I imagine between these 2 extremes, people stopped going to gainesville to train because its god awful hot and humid 7 months of the year and florida is filled with hicks and ultra conservative retirees.

I am not trying to be disrespectful but GBTC is NOT still around in any way similar to what it once was. If no one has broken into their top 5 list in the last 30 years then it is gone. My question is HOW MANY YEARS WERE THEY COMPETITIVE?

I used to run with the Florida track club on occasion when I was in college. Nowadays its more of your run of the mill area road runner's club with a few faster guys who were not quite good enough to walk-on to the team at UF.

Harry the Historian wrote:

I am not trying to be disrespectful but GBTC is NOT still around in any way similar to what it once was. If no one has broken into their top 5 list in the last 30 years then it is gone. My question is HOW MANY YEARS WERE THEY COMPETITIVE?

I agree and good question.

Fortunately you don't have to reinvent the wheel because there was a book written on the GBTC:

If you look at the top 10 times in the GBTC records for the 1500m through the 10,000m, all of the times are from no later than 1982 (excluding times from the 2000s'). The club was founded in 1973 so the shelf was 10 years or so.

Harry the Historian wrote:

I am not trying to be disrespectful but GBTC is NOT still around in any way similar to what it once was. If no one has broken into their top 5 list in the last 30 years then it is gone. My question is HOW MANY YEARS WERE THEY COMPETITIVE?

The hey day was 75-80. After that the shoe company sponsors of many of the top runners began forming their own clubs and USATF created "National Clubs"

Many of the GBTC runners ran for New Balance at the time.

Interesting story on the club in those days:

Thank you and as someone that was old enough to remember you, the group was a large part of American running history. You should be proud.

My question is why did such a good thing come to an end. Same with The Farm Team, Reebok Enclave and even more recently McMillan Elite?

Is it not sustainable or do ego's get in the way or...........?

As Hodgie said, when the sport became professional and started sponsoring athletes they created their own clubs fir those athletes so the sorts of clubs that you mention, Greater Boston, Florida, Colorado Track Club, etc., ones that once had national and international level athletes, lost those athletes. Most of the clubs continued but not at the level they'd once been.

And shoe companies are often deciding to go in other directions with their sponsorships. Reebok more or less got out of distance running, for example, though oddly they still seem to be sponsoring Zap. A club that depends on shoe company sponsorship may not survive if the company cuts them.

Harry the Historian wrote:

Thank you and as someone that was old enough to remember you, the group was a large part of American running history. You should be proud.

My question is why did such a good thing come to an end. Same with The Farm Team, Reebok Enclave and even more recently McMillan Elite?

Is it not sustainable or do ego's get in the way or...........?

That is a tough one Harry. We were a loose group but we worked together and we had a lot of fun. We were all very competitive and enjoyed competing against and beating each other as much, if not more as any other competitor from another club.

This competitive aspect seems to be lost for the majority of runners today. Participation seems to be enough.

There is a giant chasm between the best runners in the country/world and the top runners in clubs like GBTC today.

There is an entirely different mindset as to what can be achieved and how committed someone needs to be to achieve their best. Development of runners in local clubs seems to end after college. They compete in a regional Grand Prix Series and "Club Nationals" and that seems to be enough to satisfy them.

Our goals back in the day were national and international. The development of our athletes has never been a big priority for the governing body and I think that races and organizations like the BAA could be doing a lot more to finance this effort and that it would be in their best interest to do so.

In other words runners today are not really trying. They don't have the belief or the desire and that is just how it is, not that there is anything especially wrong with that.

Do you think Hansons is more like the old GBTC? I know they often credit clubs like GBTC as their inspiration.

I have a hard time figuring out why GBTC and others dried up? It seems like that was at the same time as American distance running took a giant step backwards.

If you look at the quality of BAA and NBB today, it's clear what happened. The clubs that got the big time shoe sponsorships got/get the good athletes in the area, while GBTC basically gets the lesser-level guys. If you're a guy trying to keep running at a high level and one club offers very good support while the other doesn't, the choice is pretty much a no brainer.

Is the support really that different across the clubs (excluding the newly founded BAA Elite)? All three of these clubs offer minimal level of support, which includes things like some entry fees, a jersey, maybe warm-ups, shoe discounts, maybe spikes, and possibly a handful of free shoes each year.

I think there is a difference between the clubs and runners they attract, but I'd be surprised to hear that an extra $100 in running perks is the deciding factor.

Thoughts?

Harry the Historian wrote:

Do you think Hansons is more like the old GBTC? I know they often credit clubs like GBTC as their inspiration.

I have a hard time figuring out why GBTC and others dried up? It seems like that was at the same time as American distance running took a giant step backwards.

Hansons is one of the best things to come along and does share some similarities with the old GBTC.

Hansons live/work/train together and the old GBTC was a much looser group.

heyyo wrote:

Is the support really that different across the clubs (excluding the newly founded BAA Elite)? All three of these clubs offer minimal level of support, which includes things like some entry fees, a jersey, maybe warm-ups, shoe discounts, maybe spikes, and possibly a handful of free shoes each year.

I think there is a difference between the clubs and runners they attract, but I'd be surprised to hear that an extra $100 in running perks is the deciding factor.

Thoughts?

There are some pretty big disparities if you look closely. There are also a lot more things to consider as a value besides gear (though even in that regard, its not apples to apples among these three). It's also a situation where better athletes get better support from the clubs that have the resources to offer it.

IF THE SHOE FITS . . .THEN ADVERTISE IT; RUNNERS WILL BE SHOWCASING MANY PRODUCTS: [FIRST Edition]

Joe Dinneen Globe Staff. Boston Globe [Boston, Mass] 14 Apr 1981: 1.

The Boston Marathon is undergoing a subtle change.

One of the great pure amateur events, the Hopkinton-to-Boston run is being taken over by corporate-sponsored clubs who use the event to showcase their products.

Some of the major shoe companies who manufacture running shoes, shirts and shorts sponsor runners who wear their products and represent their clubs.

Gone are the days when the team prize would almost automatically be won by the hallowed BAA or the Greater Boston Track Club. Marathoners who once wore the colors of these and others are now wearing the footgear and clothing of such firms as Nike, Adidas, Puma, New Balance and Reebok.

Jack McDonald, Boston College track coach and founder of the Greater Boston Track Club, said that this year almost all of the top 100 runners will be representing companies, most of them shoe firms.

"The shoe companies will probably be the most visible thing you'll see on the jerseys of the top runners," McDonald said, "except for Bill Rodgers, and he'll be representing his own clothing mart."

Rodgers will wear Tiger shoes, which are manufactured in Japan, but will still run under the colors of the GBTC, although he will be wearing clothing from his own firm with the logo "BR."

The GBTC has had a virtual lock on the team prize, winning it for seven straight years until last year, when the Atlanta Track Club earned the title. But McDonald wistfully observes that such a situation is history and companies will be the future victors in that phase of the Marathon.

The GBTC was formed by McDonald and others because the BAA had become "basically a long-distance group which revolved around the Marathon, and we were a bunch of track runners who wanted to stay closely involved with the colleges.'

With the demise of the BAA and Knights of Columbus track meets, interest in track and field dwindled in this area, McDonald said, "and so we invited a bunch of track guys to get together, and what happened was the GBTC.

"We named our club Greater Boston because of the Greater Boston Collegiate Conference and wanted the coaches of those particular colleges to help us out.

"And it worked quite effectively. We used the BC outdoor track, the Tufts, BU and Harvard indoor tracks and the coaches who had the expertise - Billy Squires, Billy Smith, Irwin Cohen, David Hemery - and they all helped us out."

The purpose of the club was "to give postgraduate athletes - guys out of college - an opportunity to run, to be coached, to have a reasonable schedule and to represent a team. It was very successful."

So successful that athletes from all over the country joined and ran under the GBTC colors. The shoe companies chipped in with running shoes, shirts and shorts, bags, etc., and sponsored GBTC members in national events.

But a year or so ago, the shoe companies hit upon the idea of tying in with athletes who would represent their corporate image, wearing their products from head to foot.

"The running shoe companies initially were trying to make sales," McDonald explained. "And a big part of this with the athletes was on the promotional level. They would give athletes shoes, bags, that kind of thing, to keep them interested. It was really a great idea by the shoe companies to get the top athletes."

The companies did not violate an athlete's amateur standing because there was no cash involved, McDonald pointed out. "It was like here, test these shoes for us,' because at that time you couldn't advertise, Bill Rodgers wears so-and-so's shoes.' "

Now the rules are more flexible, McDonald said. "In fact, nobody knows what the rules really are . . . the AAU and the new governing group are changing."

The idea to have marathoners wear corporate products actually was a carryover from professional sports. Pro football, basketball, hockey, baseball and soccer players long have endorsed items, especially footwear.

The first shoe firm to form its own team was Nike. "They were giving shoes to a lot of athletes around the company," McDonald explained, "and they decided to form an elite team, making qualifying standards for the team. They called it Athletics West . . . it is based out in Oregon."

In this area, New Balance was the dominant firm. New Balance supported the GBTC, sending local athletes to the nationals, the New York Marathon, Hawaii and other events. In return, the athletes would wear the New Balance shoes and jerseys. "The jerseys would say Greater Boston,' of course," McDonald said, "but every shirt would also carry the New Balance logo. Everybody was happy about the arrangement."

Last fall, New Balance decided to strike out on its own. "It was sort of sad in some ways for the old clubs . . . Greater Boston and the BAA . . . because the companies promoted their own club and selected the best athletes from around the world."

McDonald estimated that some of the shoe firms carry a roster of 50 or so athletes. Included would be such athletes as women high jumpers or men's milers. The companies enter athletes in many track events. They might have as many as 30 road runners, McDonald said.

In the Boston Marathon, the prize being sought is the plaque awarded to the winning team (the one whose three top finishers post the lowest score) representing a track club, or now, perhaps, a corporation. Individuals will be given a tie tack or money clip or a similar commemorative item which will proclaim "1981 team prize."

Promotion director Charles Flanagan of New Balance reported that the firm will be represented in the Boston run this year by Greg Meyer, Randy Thomas, Garry Bjorklund, Peter Pfitzinger and either Jim Donovan or another runner.

All are established runners. Meyer recently won marathons in Detroit and Rio de Janeiro in times of 2:13 and 2:16. Thomas was fifth in the Boston in '78. Bjorklund won the Grandma's Marathon in Duluth, Minn., last June. Pfitzinger did 2:18 in winning the Skylawn Marathon. Donovan, from Wellesley, clocked a 2:16 in taking 16th place in Boston in '78.

Athletics West (Nike) will be represented by John Lodwick from Dallas, "and he will be a factor," reported company representative Bob Sevene. Athletics West also will be represented by the two top women runners, Patti Catalano and Joan Benoit.

Reebok, located locally in Hingham, will be backing Bob Hodge from Norwell, second two years ago, and Terry Colton, who will be flown in from England. A 3000- and 5000-meter star, Colton placed 29th last year in New York, his first marathon ever.

Boston Marathon director Will Cloney acknowledged that the corporations are shoving the track clubs aside to showcase their shoes, shirts, shorts, etc. But he has no resentment.

"I think it was kind of inevitable," he said. "They have been doing it in skiing for years. And we have no control over it as long as they are registered Athletics Congress runners. They cannot run in our race unless they are registered as Athletics Congress runners. And they all have a registration number, so it is perfectly legitimate."

One stalwart who refuses to endorse any product by wearing a particular brand of shoes is veteran Johnny Kelley, who will be running in his 50th Boston Marathon. He has his favorite, of course, but refuses to play the endorsement game.

"I've had shoes sent to me from all over the world," he said. "I won't live long enough to wear them all out. I don't want to sponsor anything or anybody because I don't want any headaches."

The companies' backing of athletes in the Boston Marathon this year is probably only the tip of the iceberg.

McDonald summed it up: "The Marathon is still amateur and is still one of the greatest amateur events in the world but not quite as amateur as it used to be, if you know what I mean . . . it has changed a lot."

Word count: 1340

Copyright Boston Globe Newspaper Apr 14, 1981

The original Jamul Toads were formed by Bob Larsen, Meb's long-time coach. Larsen formed and coached the team when he was the head coach at Grossmont JC, primarily with his JC runners and a few other San Diego locals. Once Coach Larsen became the head coach at UCLA, he stopped coaching the Toads. The Toads have continued as a local mostly masters San Diego club team without any coaching or sponsorship, and largely without the sort of talent that Coach Larsen developed.

CLUBNW ans WVTC, Aggies, etc are still keep this tradition alive to some degree, as long-standing clubs still going at it...

Edward Teach wrote:

. Florida Track club decided to focus on gallowalkers instead of elites. I imagine between these 2 extremes, people stopped going to gainesville to train because its god awful hot and humid 7 months of the year and florida is filled with hicks and ultra conservative retirees.

This needs some correction, as a former Gainesville resident (9 years in total) and FTC member. Yes, FTC is mostly a local recreational club, but it does sponsor a few guys and gals who are trying to move their way up the competitive ladder.

Gainesville is in northern Florida, so while summer is a miserable bitch, it is not god awful for 7 months. Also, Gainesville is one of the most liberal places in the State of FL, and it is not full of retirees. In fact, it is full of college students. The counties surrounding Alachua county are certainly full of hicks, though.

Furthermore, there are numerous small groups of elites that still train in Gainesville - I would often see them out running with coaches on bikes or at the track. There are so many sprinters who come to Gainesville to train. It's so cool to see those folks at the track.

Carry on.

When the Olympic Trials marathon qualifying time stopped being 2:20 it took a lot of wind out of the sails of 31:00 10k runners. That OT carrot kept a lot of people loyal to the New England clubs and gave runners motivation to get through brutal winters. A couple of notes: the first woman's trials was not til 1984 so that time frame had already passed. The Liberty club in Boston was a fantastic resource for all women with a desire to achieve beyond the local road race scene. Also, the 84' Olympic marathons produced a quiver of medals from people training in New England (though not GBTC members). Joan Benoit- gold, John Tracey - silver & Charlie Spedding - bronze.