finding the right recovery pace, does running too slowly hinder recovery?

Get a heartrate monitor and stay below 70% of maxHR (you can try 220-age, but ideally you should try and determine this in a workout). Most people are shocked by how slow they have to run to keep their HR under 70%, which if it is "slow" to you, it means you're aerobically under-developed. Otherwise, when you run easy try to run with a quick turnover and good form- not "plodding". It takes some practice being able to run slow with good form/quick turnover, without going too fast.

I think there's conventional running wisdom and there's whatever works for the individual. Some individuals recover faster than others.

Providing the overall intensity of your recovery is appropriate then run at the pace you that makes you feel most comfortable.

If you start to feel tired or sluggish on workout or race days, or experience frequent injuries, then adjust accordingly.

Alternatively increase the intensity on workout days.

Running faster gives you more adrenalin, which feels good. Running slow, might not give you the same buzz.

But it is a mistake to want to feel the same on an easy run as on other days. You just have to accept that you might feel a little bored in the first mile or two and grdually your mood should improve. Dwell on the postives and the boredom should pass.

Good advice overall, but I do not understand your reasoning here:

low rider wrote:

which if it is "slow" to you, it means you're aerobically under-developed.

Aerobically under developed actually means neurally under developed. Almost everyone ignores the neuroscience/skill factor of running. You are almost certainly not 'aerobically under developed' that is just pseudoscience that so many people (sheep) repeat ad infinitum.

What it means is that your slow pace should get faster with practice.

Thanks...this is interesting.

My slow pace has gotten faster as I have increased my mileage over the last year or so.

thanks for the answers here, some good stuff. much appreciated.

sdklfjasdkfj wrote:

You are almost certainly not 'aerobically under developed' that is just pseudoscience that so many people (sheep) repeat ad infinitum.

What it means is that your slow pace should get faster with practice.

It's not pseudoscience as most people who don't work out are chronically aerobically under developed. However, you make a good point when it comes to experienced runners.

low rider wrote:

Get a heartrate monitor and stay below 70% of maxHR (you can try 220-age, but ideally you should try and determine this in a workout). Most people are shocked by how slow they have to run to keep their HR under 70%, which if it is "slow" to you, it means you're aerobically under-developed. Otherwise, when you run easy try to run with a quick turnover and good form- not "plodding". It takes some practice being able to run slow with good form/quick turnover, without going too fast.

low rider has is right. I hear all too often that it hurts to run slow (granted, these are 9-min/mile marathoners who think 10 min pace is torture.) Running "slow" doesn't mean your form breaks down. Plenty of anecdotal evidence of top elite distance runners (i.e., Kenyans) running 12 min/miles on recovery days. As long as you keep your form, you can't go too slow.

As for your comment of feeling like you're on the verge of injury, can you describe that? Are you a high-mileage runner and perhaps are just fatigued? Or do you really feel like muscles are going to tear at any given moment?

Slow is good wrote:

Plenty of anecdotal evidence of top elite distance runners (i.e., Kenyans) running 12 min/miles on recovery days. As long as you keep your form, you can't go too slow.

ummmm

outsiderunner wrote:

Good advice overall, but I do not understand your reasoning here:

low rider wrote:

which if it is "slow" to you, it means you're aerobically under-developed.

If you have to really slow down to keep your HR under 70% of max, it means you're aerobically under-developed. As I said, most people are shocked by this. The key is doing this over a long period of time, and you'll find that you get to where you can eventually sustain a faster pace and keep the HR under 70% of max-- this is due to better aerobic development.

no science here, just experience

i never learned to run slow well. it was either plodding and getting hurt due to form. or i was uncomfortable and sped up until it felt alright. but then i was getting injured too much.

after too many years of injury/fitness cycles, i finally figured out how to hold form at a slow pace and my recovery runs slowed down and i actually recovered! (gasp!) no injuries beyond a ding here and there since...

i wish i hadn't lost so many years before i figured it out.

not from here anymore wrote:

no science here, just experience

i never learned to run slow well. it was either plodding and getting hurt due to form. or i was uncomfortable and sped up until it felt alright. but then i was getting injured too much.

after too many years of injury/fitness cycles, i finally figured out how to hold form at a slow pace and my recovery runs slowed down and i actually recovered! (gasp!) no injuries beyond a ding here and there since...

i wish i hadn't lost so many years before i figured it out.

I hear you. seems like you have to look for that sweet spot where it really is a recovery run, where your heart is completely taking it easy, while your cadence and form are nice and natural. For me, it seems to be somewhere in the 8k/5 mile pace + 2 minutes range in higher mileage weeks, and maybe 5-10 seconds faster than that when on lower mileage weeks.

By the way, fwiw, Daniels and possibly others prescribe an easy range where what I describe above is on the slower end of the range.

Running by feel is sometimes a little trickier than advertised. It takes some experience to learn the connection between how you feel in a given recovery run and how you feel a week(s) later.

As someone earlier referred to (wrt adrenaline), this is partly because your body can be all jazzed up from a recent hard workout, maybe even in a bit of a state of shock, and thus you're not receiving proper warning signals from your body. At the same time, your cardiovascular system is all revved up to a certain rhythm, making you feel an itch to go faster. Don't.

Force yourself to go damn slow for several weeks, and see how your hard workouts progress. Perhaps you'll gravitate toward a faster slow pace still, but always better to be overly cautious on recovery days.

Canova discussed on a thread how he doesn't let his athletes run too slow on their regeneration runs as it leads to a more prolonged eccentric loading/contraction with each foot strike (resulting in more muscle damage than if the athlete was running at a slightly faster pace, and ultimately impeding recovery). keep your cadence as quick as normal days, and focus on a really short ground contact time & being light on your feet. might require you to feel like your going "too fast", but will actually do less damage to your legs & allow for better recovery.

bradley strider wrote:

my initial thought was to "listen to the body" and go out there and just run what feels comfortable. interestingly enough, i've found that while a particular pace might feel comfortable, it often HURTS more and tends not to lead to good recovery from a workout.

when i push it a bit harder on those easier days, start running a pace the body initially doesn't exactly react well too, i find that i'm HURTING less, and often that i'm recovering better.

bradley strider wrote:

i know there are many different "pace camps" on this board; i happen to believe there should be clear easier days that follow hard days (workouts). i'm struggling to figure out the pacing on easier days though.

my initial thought was to "listen to the body" and go out there and just run what feels comfortable. interestingly enough, i've found that while a particular pace might feel comfortable, it often HURTS more and tends not to lead to good recovery from a workout.

Listening to your body is probably your BEST feedback ONLY if you listen to it. In other words, if you feel like crap or slow on your recovery days and still complete your run then probably ok. If it hurts and you're not able to complete your run then you might re-evaluate. Check your diet or training regime to make sure it's not too much. Just a thought.

FWIW, my college teammate often runs 7:30-8:00 minute miles on his recovery days and has run 24:35 xc / 14:30 5k.

How many runs per week should be at recovery pace? Let's say you do something like track workouts on Tuesday, tempo on Thursday, and long run on Saturday. Should the other days of the week all be at recovery pace, or just the days after the workouts?

sdklfjasdkfj wrote:

Aerobically under developed actually means neurally under developed. Almost everyone ignores the neuroscience/skill factor of running. You are almost certainly not 'aerobically under developed' that is just pseudoscience that so many people (sheep) repeat ad infinitum.

What it means is that your slow pace should get faster with practice.

While the bulk of science is hard to ignore, and I don't wish to argue my current belief system vs. someone else's, I'm finding what "sdklfjasdkfj" has to say intuitively correct. "sdklfjasdkfj", what books would you recommend reading that speak to the importance of neural development being king?