Over-trained??? Suggesttions for recovery.

If i were you, i would have her take a week completely off as she is clearly exhausted. Let her cross train during this week but no running and then resume her program with a bit less mileage (50 miles ish) but make sure that she does some cross training instead to replace the decrease in miles.

Complete week off, no nothing( not sure if that would fly)? Or maybe some pool work? Suggestions on the cross training?

Yes, I would say it's probably exhaustion. But I've never heard of someone randomly taking a week off for exhaustion.

Definitely take one day off if she's that tired. And if she's too exhausted on the day of a workout, it may be a good idea to pull her from the workout. But she should still be doing recovery runs (3-7 miles at a medium-slow pace). Or at the very least a pool or bike workout.

It's in the middle of the season. This is the time when workouts are most important in order to peak near the end.

Also just wait for your coaches advice. Assuming he has years of experience, he probably knows best.

So a reduction in mileage and intensity? There is access to an Alter G (local college), would that be a benefit for doing some longer stuff or a workout if needed? And we will take the coaches advice, she has many years experience. Just trying to be proactive.

Is she the only one on her team having problems at this point in training? Has this program had success in the past? Sounds like she is not recovering from workouts,racing? Mileage drop is good, but my guess is the volume and intensity might be the bigger issue. The mile repeats were more like mile intervals and the volume and pace, for her level of fitness, was a very aggressive workout. If the races that followed that workout were in tough conditions (hot,true 5k course) that would exacerbate her fatigued state, and might partly explain her races. If she continues racing poorly and says she is feeling tired, then adjust volume, intensity or both. She does have a very good mileage base of training, she might start racing well. Hope things turn for the better for her, she has worked hard.

Yes she seems that she is the only one at this point. Others are coming along younger runners and girls that have had injury issues(shorter mileage, workouts and absence during the summer). The program is successful and always has a deep bench. She never missed a practice or workout and always out front in the lead, pushing the pace. I her thinking was I feel good and the workouts would make for a successful end of season. And yes she is in very good shape and that is a postive

Sounds like your daughter is just not as talented as you want her to be.

Week off, ice bath following a deep tissue massage at least 3-4 times that week. That should bust all the junk out of her. Try and get 10-12 hours of sleep per night too.

sloop john b wrote:

Week off, ice bath following a deep tissue massage at least 3-4 times that week. That should bust all the junk out of her. Try and get 10-12 hours of sleep per night too.

^ This is good advice ^ Maybe not the week off though.

Thanks for the help and advice. Makes me upset when someone comes to this site and asks a question, then someone feels a need to put that person or kid down. I never mentioned my feelings and idea of my kids talent I just asked for help. But I do thank all of you that offered honest and heart felt advise.

Week off, ice bath following a deep tissue massage at least 3-4 times that week. That should bust all the junk out of her. Try and get 10-12 hours of sleep per night too.

^ This is good advice ^ Maybe not the week off though.

Deep tissue massage will only make her more exhausted, especially if it's a new stress (and stress it is when new). But some time off is certainly needed and will only be of benefit. Just how much is hard to say. At 17 years old, a week may be too much for her. Why commit to an entire week rather than take it day by day? Monitor how she rebounds, or whether she is just yet. Kids bounce back quick.

If she's the compulsive type and can't quite handle time off, have her run downhill at low levels of effort and then simply walk uphill and on the flatter terrain. This way she still moves her legs and incurs some necessary impact, but at low stress levels. Either that, or as someone else suggested, do other low-effort activities, to help her keep her sanity (and her belief in herself)...cycling, swimming, hiking. Intensity should definitely be cut out, but some low-effort volume may be okay. Movement is medication; training may not be.

I understand your point about deep tissue massage, however if calves and hamstrings are remaining overly tight and sore, after proper cool down from hard racing and workouts, then a good rubbing out will be very beneficial.

I understand your point about deep tissue massage, however if calves and hamstrings are remaining overly tight and sore, after proper cool down from hard racing and workouts, then a good rubbing out will be very beneficial.

There's little doubt of massage's benefits and I've always preached its merits, so long as it's done on a regular basis and not simply acting as a one-week panacea. A bunch of deep-tissue massages at this point will only beat the poor girl down more, if she hasn't been receiving any. And initial massages need to be gentle "testers," not deep relievers! Releasing all that crap into the bloodstream will make the kid think she's done for. Dad never mentioned tight or sore hamstrings or calves, just deep exhaustion, and for that the prescription is simple: REST. Dad: she needs to quit leading all her teammates during workouts! It's okay (and necessary) to ease back from time to time, so it's not forced on her like it is, or should be, now.

No tightness beyond regular stuff, just dead legs now. She does a nightly Epsom salt bath or aches and pains. Weekly ART and then some adjustments and stem treatment at sports doc.

Thanks for the clarification on gentle massage vs. deep tissue, good points and advice. Not to belabor the point but weekly massage and or rolling should be done as part of maintenance (training routine), imo.

Let her have tons of sleep. Also, maybe stop putting so much pressure on her.

I am consistently amazed at how much training high school kids can absorb without breakdown. The training you are describing is pretty heavy on quality, so certainly over-training can be a factor.

BUT, just in case, I would get her tested for the other possibilities that can be connected to a sudden and precipitous (and what you are describing is really precipitous) drop in performance. Mono, lyme (if you are in an affected area), etc.

It is just such a big drop-off that it may be an indicator of something more serious than just overtraining. And better safe than sorry.

Good luck

My daughter did some extremely intense workouts three weeks ago, two days back to back,tough sessions. Bonked badly next two races, raced very well this weekend. Coach backed off intensity, but still solid training.

Yepper tested for mono,iron, infection and etc. Seems a smart move to reduce mileage and intensity, with gradually increasing mileage.