US student debt is 1.2 trillion and growing

forgot to give you the link http://thinkprogress.org/education/2014/10/01/3574551/germany-free-college-tuition/

If you gave one of these debtors an ax and a forest could build a house?

Higher education in the US has become a too-big-to-fail industry. If the subsidy-bubble bursts then too many people will be out of a job, so that will never happen. If the government paid all public tuition that would be called socialism and never happen.

In the grand scheme of things it is not so bad though. People wasting money on overpriced degrees that will have little value in the job market is no different from any of the other luxuries and scams that most of the US economy consists of. A productive economy becomes a victim of its own success, producing superabundance resulting in massive unemployment. It's all America can do to keep people doing something, even if it amounts to the Goldsteinian "digging holes and then filling them back up."

Unfortunately, education has become something that is for the rich only. Apparently, our leaders would rather spend money (trillions) on bombing innocent civilians in illegal/immoral wars than address serious issues here at home. It is war, war, war for the rich, rich, rich...while the poor die in these wars, and those who are left have fewer and fewer opportunities.

Higher education has become a scam. Kids believe they're getting trained for real-world, entry-level white collar jobs that are "in-demand", but in reality these jobs exist in small numbers compared to the number of people pursuing them through the educational route. Every white collar field is oversaturated already. Yea, if you get into the best program and make yourself competitive enough for these jobs, college can be worth-it for you, but every other college grad has to work at Starbucks since there aren't enough good jobs to go around.

It costs so much because of unions. Universities are just another branch of government. Even the private ones operate like a government, especially if they are research institutions.

Waste. Fraud. Abuse.

All that money that is being paid is going somewhere--to gold-plated pensions, to gold-plated health care, to "professional development" days, to diversity training.

Waste. Fraud. Abuse.

The problem is not how much it costs, but the fact that the return is so little--THAT is the problem.

To the guy wanting to go to Germany, go for it. You will learn as much in one year at Max Planck as you will in 3 years in the USA, except maybe at MIT.

Ask me how I know.

outsiderunner wrote:

Unfortunately, education has become something that is for the rich only. Apparently, our leaders would rather spend money (trillions) on bombing innocent civilians in illegal/immoral wars than address serious issues here at home. It is war, war, war for the rich, rich, rich...while the poor die in these wars, and those who are left have fewer and fewer opportunities.

You guys are absolute idiots. Where do you come up with this garbage? College doesn't have to cost a lot. It only costs a lot if you are going to expensive schools.

in debt college student wrote:

With increasing student debt and tuition and fees, and decreasing job market comes decreasing social security. This is an out-of-control downward spiral.

How can we reverse this? Why does education cost so much? If the US government spends around $69 billion on subsidize college education and $107.4 billion on student loans for a total of $176.4 billion, it would be cheaper if the US government just pays all tuition and fees for public universities since that amounts to around $62.6 billion. This would put pressure on private schools to lower tuition.

I went to a state school and paid my own way (no help from parents). I earned academic and athletic scholarships and took advantage of tax refunds. I worked part-time when I could. In the end, I earned a USEFUL degree that landed me a job 3 months out from graduation with an oil company paying $65k my first year. I paid off all of my $35k of debt in one year.

So my question to you is this: Why do you want to pin the student debt debacle on everyone except the students?

College students are supposedly smart individuals. They are adults. If they make the idiotic choice of majoring in psychology while taking on $60k of loans, let them deal with the consequences. They'll survive.

This generation of kids is so lazy that they expect everything handed to them. When I graduated, I manage to get married, get a job, and pay a mortgage... And now I'm getting ready to comfortably retire too!

Not my fault these lazy good for nothing kids are going into debt. We'll be better off with out these kids and their faces shoved into their phones!

in debt college student wrote:

it would be cheaper if the US government just pays all tuition and fees

I would prefer not to pay for all the worthless degrees out there. Let the political science idiots pay their own way.

jamin wrote:

Higher education has become a scam. Kids believe they're getting trained for real-world, entry-level white collar jobs that are "in-demand", but in reality these jobs exist in small numbers compared to the number of people pursuing them through the educational route. Every white collar field is oversaturated already. Yea, if you get into the best program and make yourself competitive enough for these jobs, college can be worth-it for you, but every other college grad has to work at Starbucks since there aren't enough good jobs to go around.

jamin speaking the truth again.

What is happening though is that there are not enough Starbux, Wal-Mart, McDonalds, jobs to go around, so then you have healthy, intelligent people like me with no criminal record sitting on my ass with nothing to do.

Bad Wigins wrote:

Higher education in the US has become a too-big-to-fail industry. If the subsidy-bubble bursts then too many people will be out of a job, so that will never happen. If the government paid all public tuition that would be called socialism and never happen.

In the grand scheme of things it is not so bad though. People wasting money on overpriced degrees that will have little value in the job market is no different from any of the other luxuries and scams that most of the US economy consists of. A productive economy becomes a victim of its own success, producing superabundance resulting in massive unemployment. It's all America can do to keep people doing something, even if it amounts to the Goldsteinian "digging holes and then filling them back up."

I see where you are going with this, but I really do wonder if higher education industry has really become too big to fail. I mean, people within this thread are calling it a scam. Once my kids are college age, I will tell them to refrain from college if they don't some kind of an idea of what they want to do. If my kid wants an english degree, fine, but I want him to recognize what he can likely expect for a salary, and if loans are needed, he can at least take out loans with some kind of educated guidance. In other words, kid, you're going to be an English teacher making 40k per year...don't get yourself much further than 20k in the hole.

Furthermore, the purpose of college has shifted from getting an education (and sure, having some fun, figuring out who you are, etc...) to much more about the experience. Look at the new stadiums, luxury dorm rooms, enormous rec centers popping up on campuses. THAT is what student loans are going toward...not an "education".

With that said, anyone with half a brain would offer some friendly advice to their children and hold them back from attending college if it isn't for the right reasons...and thus, I believe demand will ultimately decrease for higher education. People are on to "the scam".

El Asso Wipo wrote:

What is happening though is that there are not enough Starbux, Wal-Mart, McDonalds, jobs to go around, so then you have healthy, intelligent people like me with no criminal record sitting on my ass with nothing to do.

So find something to do. There are millions of opportunities out there just waiting for someone who is so smart and so healthy. You just don't want to figure it out. You want someone to hand it to you or tell you what to do...right?

It's been said before. Student loans should be granted similarly to home loans. Degrees where the median income is 35,000 shouldn't qualify for the same loan as a doctor. Teachers with 100K of debt or higher upon graduation won't be able to retire until their 80.

El Asso Wipo wrote:

What is happening though is that there are not enough Starbux, Wal-Mart, McDonalds, jobs to go around, so then you have healthy, intelligent people like me with no criminal record sitting on my ass with nothing to do.

It's this pervasive attitude that has made it so easy for me to find work. I can do nothing but thank you for spreading it around some more.

TedTalked wrote:

I mean, people within this thread are calling it a scam.

Everything's a scam. The US economy is founded on the production and trade of useless and/or harmful commodities.

military: pay guys to stir up trouble and then go "intervene"

food: feed people unhealthy things like corn and soy

health: treat the medical conditions of the people who ate corn and soy, and also wounded soldiers

recycling: collect and refabricate plastic burning more fossil fuels than were used in its original manufacture

smart phones: devices to enable social hyperactivity and constant computer use

eyewear: devices to correct the vision of people who walk around staring at tiny screens for years

lawyers: white-collar thieves and con artists for hire.

Everywhere I look in the US I see products that are long on luxury and short on necessity, and the ones that are necessary shouldn't be.

This includes laws passed to shore up demand for things nobody would otherwise want. The one I hate most is eyewear prescription verification for online purchases. US prescriptions typically expire after 1 or 2 years whether your vision changes or not. In the case of myopia, if you're older than your early 20's, odds are it hasn't. But you can't rely on your continued ability to see minute details on the horizon, no, you have to go pay the optometrist again to buy lenses from a US website. This is not the case with Canadian or British sites. I would hazard a bet that there are fewer optometrists per capita in those countries.

To-Do List wrote:

You will learn as much in one year at Max Planck as you will in 3 years in the USA, except maybe at MIT.

You'll learn more at Max Planck. Especially if your field is math.