Help with runner that continues to drop out

How is his nutrition? Could be a lack of carbohydrates. Check his diet and repot back to us. Number of calories, what his meals are and when he eats them

Nutrition is good. Mom And dad are/were good runners. Upped his calorie intake this week. We are leaning towards sports anxiety

After the kid COLLAPSES you still make him do a cool down run? Are you kidding me? How about get him some medical attention and rest?

What you should do is try and figure out if he has a physical issue or mental issue. Get him into a 10k or something. If he can run more than 3 miles at race pace for a 10k but collapses just before the finish line, it's probably a mental issue like an anxiety problem and not a physical distance problem.

johnnyrunner wrote:

Nutrition is good. Mom And dad are/were good runners. Upped his calorie intake this week. We are leaning towards sports anxiety

I don't know the situation first-hand, so feel free to discard if I'm off the mark:

Mom and dad are runners. He's a runner.

Does he want to be a runner, or do his parents want him to be a runner? He may be feeling pressure from his parents that is triggering huge levels of anxiety.

And remember, it doesn't matter what you think reasonable pressure is, or what his parents think reasonable pressure is. If he's having breakdowns, it's an unacceptable level of pressure.

There's something specific triggering all of this. And he's ashamed of it, or he would have told you what is bothering him. That means it's either straight-out abuse, or he feels like he's under a lot of pressure not to let people down.

He's going out too fast.

Train him to hold back the first half, and then work his way through the field.

Totally a guess, but is he warming up properly before the races? I.e., jogging, drills, several fast strides, and 60 seconds or so at faster than 5k pace? If not, I'd have him warm up hard enough to be breathing hard 20 minutes before the race just to see if it helped. Maybe he needs a harder warm up than other runners.

Another option would be to have him run behind a slower runner for the first half of the race and then run how he feels for the remainder.

nutrition2 wrote:

How is his nutrition? Could be a lack of carbohydrates. Check his diet and repot back to us. Number of calories, what his meals are and when he eats them

So he needs a different diet from what works fine in training?

The loss of coordination and collapsing with reasonably quick and total recovery suggests to me a vascular issue, probably related to transient low blood pressure. Of course if this is the case it could be down to any number of reasons. But failure of blood pressure regulation is the obvious culprit from the information given.

htrf wrote:

The loss of coordination and collapsing with reasonably quick and total recovery suggests to me a vascular issue, probably related to transient low blood pressure. Of course if this is the case it could be down to any number of reasons. But failure of blood pressure regulation is the obvious culprit from the information given.

Not a bad guess, but please call it what it is (a guess). Which vascular issue? likely not ischemic claudication from sclerotic arteries in a healthy young non-smoker. Are you thinking about a vasculitis? also extremely unlikely in this scenario. Transient low blood pressure?? More likely, sounds like you're thinking vasovagal syncope however it is interesting this only occurs during races...

My leading guess at this point would be a mental thing. I do not know the athlete and cannot say, but you would be tuned into this as a coach so I'll defer to you for that evaluation. Also, is he taking any meds? trying anything different before his races (eg red bull, caffiene pills, etc?).

If it is not this, I would start hunting down the zebras. Namely, WILSON'S DISEASE should be ruled out. I'm not sure how extensive his workup has been, but I would get orthostatic vital signs (to see about a neurocardiogenic problem), a basic chemistry, CBC, Ceruloplasmin (for wilsons), EKG, and even consider an echocardiogram to make sure he doesn't have a heart defect (hypertrophic cardiomyopathy can present this way, but would typically be symptomatic in practice too). All but the echo could be done in a 20 min outpatient office visit (wait times not included) and pending the results I would also consider evaluation by a neurologist.

G'luck coach.

Sounds like a mental thing to me as well. Stranger things have happened, but it's hard to imagine a physical issue that only presents during races without effecting long runs, tempos, or hard repeat workouts. Especially since it is happening ~half way through the race, so he isn't really starting to exert himself to a greater extent than he would in a time trial or tough workout in practice.

Could it be something like this?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/04/sports/for-runner-with-ms-no-pain-while-racing-no-feeling-at-the-finish.html?_r=0

I'm assuming his 17:15 is a true 5 k. So he can 30 min. tempo faster than he can race. Slow tempo down and give a little more rest between the 5 x 1000. He might be leaving a little of his race in his workouts. If he doesn't have enough base fitness to support his workouts, that could be part of the contributing problem.

Great insights. I misspoke when I listed his tempo, it is 5:53 pace for 5 miles. My mistake.

Yes, he runs great the first half of the race then it is a slow progression to where he his legs eventually wobble and he can't continue. He was on some medication for ticks the he started when he was in the 6th grade. After the first two times this happened, he went to his doctor, got blood work done ( not sure as to the extent, will find out this week) and they slowly weeded out the medication after 4 days that did affect his blood pressure. His next two races were 17:13, and 17:23. Then the next two races, back to issues.

I am going to try and have him start out a little slower in his upcoming race. Appreciate the thoughts and suggestions, believe me, I am taking all of these into consideration.

J.R. wrote:

He's going out too fast.

Train him to hold back the first half, and then work his way through the field.

Yes