Training for a Fast 5K Please help

Break_16 wrote:

Assuming my 5K pace is 5:20/mi (80s 400m; 40s 200m)

Wed: AM: 4 Mile Easy (30 Min) PM: 16x400 @72-75s; 60s walking rest; 6x200s @36-40s w/100m jog

For some reason, those 200s at the end of that workout just jump out at me. They seem totally useless at that pace. It looks like you ran the 400s too fast (if 80s/lap is your 5k pace) and then struggled to run some 40s 200s. This is not a good workout and you probably felt terrible for a few days.

crete wrote:

Break_16 wrote:

Assuming my 5K pace is 5:20/mi (80s 400m; 40s 200m)

Wed: AM: 4 Mile Easy (30 Min) PM: 16x400 @72-75s; 60s walking rest; 6x200s @36-40s w/100m jog

For some reason, those 200s at the end of that workout just jump out at me. They seem totally useless at that pace. It looks like you ran the 400s too fast (if 80s/lap is your 5k pace) and then struggled to run some 40s 200s. This is not a good workout and you probably felt terrible for a few days.

That was a concept; I didn't actually do that workout, that's just what I'm planning on doing, and I want to know how I should do it or whether I should do it (like critique it). I want to know 5K workouts and when to/not to do them.

I do agree, I guess 72-75 might be too fast for me, so what pace would I run them in? 78-80? I want Mondays to be 10K workouts (800s,1000s,1200s, 1600s, etc.) and Wednesday to be my 3K/5K-Pace Work (400s,600s,800s,200s, hard tempos, ladders, etc.) And Fridays may be a third workout like a tempo or something unique. That week I didn't run it, it's what I PLAN on doing 3 weeks from now.

Bump.

BUMP

Bumpity-bump

Run more miles.

Since your just asking about specific phase i'll just answer that but one thing to consider your only going to want to stay in the phase in the 4-8wk range as after awhile you will see your improvement start to slow and you eventually will go backwards so just dont spend to much in this phase before you taper your your goal race. Here are adjustments i would make.

Mon: Wk1: 16x400(200m jog)(5k pace or slightly faster) just to wake up the legs. wk2: 8-10x800(400m jog)(5k pace)-400(allout), wk3: 6-7x1200(400m jog)(5k pace)-400(allout)

Tue: 45 Minute Recovery (around 6 miles) etc.

Wed: AM: 4 Mile Easy (30 Min) PM: 30min tempo plus 4-8x200(200m jog)(fast) or cruise intervals 5xmile(1:00 rest) plus 200s

Thu: 45 Minute run (5-6 miles)

Fri: short hill workout (eg 8x200m hill) or short speed workout (eg 8x200(200m jog))

Sat: 90 Minute Long Run

Sun: Rest or recovery run 30min easy

If its a race week i would take out the friday w/o and saturday long run and just do recovery run the day before the race. if the race is on sat or sun you will have 2-3 easier days heading into the race so you should feel good.

Just go as hard as you can till you break...then back way off then do it again.

Thank you for your reply. I've taken all of that into account, and I'll do that in my 8 week phase. Is it better though to increase number of reps (like from 16x400 to 20x400 w/shorter rest) better or increasing the length of repeats (like from 8x800 to 6x1200)?

I only have 3 more weeks of base training left, and my plan is to introduce speed during these 3 weeks by doing weekly workouts of 20x200s/200m jog at 3K/5K pace or faster, and a 40 minute slow tempo (6:00-6:15/mi), which will get my legs used to the speed. Then I'll start the above week and build up from there.

So far, this week:

Mon- 40min slow tempo (6:14/mi)

Tue- 60 min easy

Wed- 20x200/200mj 2 mile warm-up, 2.5 mile cool down

Thu- 60 min easy

Fri- 60 min easy

Sat- 30 min easy

Sun- 120 min long run (the only 2 hour long run I'll do in this 24 week base)

Then a 5K race the week after, followed by one more week of, well...that ^^^ and then I start real speed work/racing season of 8 weeks.

"Assuming my 5K pace is 5:20/mi"

You ran 16:58. Your 5k pace when at least slightly tapered is 5:28. Did you move to somewhere where the weather is MUCH nicer? If not, assuming that you can base your everyday workouts off even your tapered race time is a mistake.

A few weeks of 200/200 as Hadd described is a good idea. Then you want to work down. You are doing slow tempos, great. Next you want to get good at slightly faster tempos, say 2 x 20 min at 6:04 pace. Then 3 x 10 min at 5:55. Only when 3 or even 4 x 10 min at 5:55 is easy should you move to repeat miles at 5:45.

If you jump from 200/200s to 8 x 800 at dream 5k pace you will have wasted your entire effort.

Shouldn't you move on to HADD phase 2?

But then when do I do the speed workouts like 400s, 800s, or 1000s? Do I do those and then the tempos in another day? I'm so confused...

Basically, would I do something like:

Mon- 2x20 min 6:04 pace

Tue- easy

Wed- 16x400 @5k pace and 200m jog

Thu- easy

Fri- 8x200 (as the poster above said)

Sat- Long Run

Sun- Rest

We are not training for the mile. The idea is extension. Secondly your going to want to consider mix paced interval workouts as your progress such as sets of 1200(5k pace)(200m jog)-400(mile)(400m jog).

Intensity...200 (5k pace). & Mileage

Citius5000 wrote:

We are not training for the mile. The idea is extension. Secondly your going to want to consider mix paced interval workouts as your progress such as sets of 1200(5k pace)(200m jog)-400(mile)(400m jog).

I saw a list of HADD'S phase 2A workouts and I'll use those. According to him; each week is 5K pace or slower (1200s, 1600s, 1000s, etc.) and one day of faster than 5K work followed by a long run or race (race weeks will have no speed day.)

For now, I assume the example week I posted was fine and I will do mixed interval workouts later on to peak, like the mile repeats and 1200s you mentioned (400, 800, 1000, 1200, 800, 400 ladders)...

I can help. Play some music on long runs and work on your arms:)

www.waistrunner.com

You training plan is sensible but it make take more time for the improvement to occur. After a few weeks of speed training you should incorporate a rest week reducing you mileage and speed workout.

You have to earn the right to train longer intervals, even 400s at 5k pace. Remember, the Hadd way is THE SLOWEST way to get fast at 5k but it is the surest way to see the most progress possible.

If you can't stand the wait, just start running the 20 X 200 at 5k pace (say 40 sec) with 200 at 15 sec slower or 55 sec rest, every week. Even that much 5k pace will limit your possible progress and peak you for a 5k in a couple months.

You need to get the 20 min runs right. The 10 min and miles right. Then you can start thinking about 1200s at 12k pace. Once you own them, then work on 1000s at 10k pace.

While you are doing those one day a week, a second day a week should be a long run and another day a week should be a slow tempo.

Like someone said, mixed intervals are good. At the end of the slow tempo and the faster tempo/long interval days run say 3 x 200 at mile pace 200 slow jog. If you are in the month when you are working on say 1200s at 12k pace but have a race coming up in 3 weeks, run the LAST 1200 at 5k pace but no more.

Are you serious? 5x1000 is a great 5k workout no matter who you are. A 5k is pretty long to only train 200s/400s/600s, my coach wouldn't even train a miler like that. Because a 5k is 90% aerobic, the most important workout you can do is VO2max stuff, which is FASTER than 5k pace, for AT LEAST an 800. (Unless you are really really slow). Tempo miles are great quality aerobic training, but slightly more a base workout than anything. To get good at the 5k, up your miles, do at least 1 VO2max interval session a week (800,1000,1200), do some high quality aerobic (tempo running) and make sure to get a pretty tough long run in each week.