Is it possible to get a menial job and advance over years through dedication and competence?

Of course you can advance from a menial job just as you can from any other. My background working as produce clerk for $7.35/hr at Albertson's enabled me to get hired as a conductor trainee at a major railroad a few years later. My "menial" background demonstrated that I'm reliable, honest, and safety-minded. I now make upward of $80K at a job that suits me very well. I am not college material and never would have fit in anywhere in the white collar world, but still have what I consider a great job making what I consider great money for me. I am also limited by my inability to take on a management role; if you have that ability, you can go much further than I. The store manager at the Albertson's I worked at, and the regional managers, all cleared $100K.

Yes it's possible and not dumb to dream. Many CEOs have shared or even written their stories of such rises. However, such hope may be misleading as "we" may not know/have exposure to how many tried this approach but failed.

A friend of mine worked as a gas station attendant at a super convenience store chain in my area for years. Graduated with from college, couldn't find a job since the economy in his area was fairly destitute. Continued to pump and eventually applied for management. He now makes 115,000. Also, he's a bit of a moron and lazy, but is doing well. I've known others who moved into retail management and make 40-65k, still pretty good, given what most people in their 20s make in this era.

Look around online at companies and what they pay management.

Also you will probably never get a job at a library. There is a massive glut of Library science master graduates fighting over low paying jobs and internships.

UPS is a company that historically promotes from within - many of the top execs started out in "menial" positions and worked their way up. As with most large companies, there is a fair amount of politics but promotions and lateral moves are more the norm than not. I started out in 2005 as a part-time loader making $8.50/hour and now am a plant engineering supervisor with base pay of ~$58k with incentives that can push that over $70k (not a ton of money but decent for my location and lifestyle). I went to school during that time and got a math degree so there was a bit of a lull in my career while I focused more on school but you wouldn't have that issue. I also started at age 31 after finally escaping the wreckage of my wasted 20s so you're light years ahead of where I was. Good luck!

P.S. What is the common denominator in all your stressful jobs?

Of course it's possible. But that doesn't mean it's likely. You're probably better off looking for other graduate level jobs. There are a lot of jobs were the mere fact of a degree will help, even if it's not specifically chemistry related.

Much better than flipping burgers or stacking shelves and hoping to make it to the top of McDonalds or Walmart.

I was always interested in owning a fast food franchise, or maybe running a McDonald's, something like that. Well at one point in my career when I was out of work, I decided to make that dream a reality. I applied at my local McDonald's. Now, let me tell you -- I have a BS and an MS, so I am not the average person who applies at McDonald's. But I was not going to let that stop me! So in the interview, I stressed that I wanted to learn the business, that I would do any job -- clean toilets, make fries, mop the floors -- whatever it took. I wanted to know every job in that place, inside out. Why? Because one day I'd be running that place, and I'd NEED to know.

The manager told me he'd never had someone who expressed such an enthusiasm for the work, nor anyone who had a plan to move through the ranks quite like mine. He was impressed. I was offered a job and told I could start immediately.

The following week I started my new job. After an hour of HR paperwork and a new-employee orientation with my fellow new co-workers, I was ready to begin. I took the tasks I was given and performed them in a thoughtful, yet efficient manner. In that first hour I mopped floors. I picked up trash. I cleaned a toilet. In no time, I would be promoted to the fry machine. I could feel it.

When my lunch break rolled around, the manager congratulated me on a productive half-day of work. This was it, I thought. This afternoon is when I start moving up. But it was not to be. Shortly after lunch, he handed me keys to the outside storage shed and asked me to mow the grass. Mow the grass? What? Did he not see the skill and enthusiasm I brought to filling the tampon machine? The simply joy I took in putting out ketchup packets? I was shocked and dismayed. I wanted more. I DESERVED more. Well, you know what I did? I told him to take that lawnmower and shove it up his a$$, I quit that job, and walked right out of there, never to return!

That's too bad. You might have become the CEO of a large lawn care company if you had stuck out the day.

OP,

If you want a job without stress, you need to find a better boss NOT a different job.

People say you make a choice to allow yourself to be stressed. That is kind of true, but if your boss had made the choice to allow themselves to be stressed, you are kind of stuck. Start networking and find a good boss.

I sure hope so, as that's the situation I've been essentially forced into by my family!!! In all seriousness, it often is, especially in retail jobs. While I haven't personally been promoted yet in the six years I've been busting ass at the place (while lazy f^##s like a few of the assistant managers get promoted in less than two years) I'm now getting very close to hopefully getting to run my department.

Hard work, intelligence and dedication will only get you to a point. In today's USA, nepotism, favoritism and ass-kissing determines advancement after a certain point. This is what people mean when they say, "It's not what you know, it's who you know".

Decide now how far up the chain you want to go, and what kind of person you're willing to become to advance beyond lower-to-mid-management.

"In today's USA"

Please list other countries from either today or from history when this was not the case.

I'm sure you can come up with what you think of as examples of single individuals (I tend to think of those people as lucky or ruthless) but I want societies that really qualify as meritocracies.

If your goal is to advance, why would you start over as a menial laborer with the goal of working your way up over the years? With a college degree and a history of employment, you could move into a management-level position in any of the industries you mention in relatively short order.

If you do any of the menial jobs you mention above on a part time basis while you're doing your current 9-5, you'll probably have sufficient experience to get a job at the management level within a few months of weekend shifts. Your chemistry degree shows that you are smart enough to run a coffee shop. You just need to gain enough experience to know how things work at a coffee shop in order to be ready for a management position.

Of course, if your goal is just to sell coffee in a low-stress environment, there is certainly nothing wrong with taking a job as a barista. But since you have indicated the desire to advance, I don't know why you would stick around in a low-level job for any length of time.

Here's a paraphrase of conversation I had with a construction contractor last week.

"I just can't find anyone who wants to work anymore. Pay or skill is not the issue, just desire. I offered a guy $5 more an hour if he would get his CDL and told him he wasn't getting another raise until he did. That was 3 years ago. I'd pay a good foreman $35 an hour if somebody would step up."

This is pretty typical of what I see. A smart guy who is dependable and willing to work can very quickly make his way from being the guy with a shovel to the guy giving the orders. Just being able to speak english and do basic math puts you way ahead. Sure it's hard work at first, some longer hours, and you're out in all kinds of weather. But there's not much stress, pay is ok, and you don't have to sit in a soul sucking office all day.

Or take the typical letsrun advice and learn a programming language.

kamcfi9q4 wrote:

"In today's USA"

Please list other countries from either today or from history when this was not the case.

I'm sure you can come up with what you think of as examples of single individuals (I tend to think of those people as lucky or ruthless) but I want societies that really qualify as meritocracies.

You're probably right. I just look back at, say, 45-50 years ago in the USA where we were enough of a meritocracy in engineering to be able to go from a President's speech to a man on the moon in less than a decade. That could never happen in today's USA (since the 80s or so), and I guess I really really need to understand why.

I started out painting houses and waiting tables out of college and ended up a millionaire.

I was willing to take on more responsibility

I was willing to change careers

I was willing to learn

I had to figure my own way of getting to success. There was no turn-key method.

I didn't let setbacks phase me

You need an advanced degree. Period.

A thread with a bunch of LetsRunners talking about how they're self-made men who pulled themselves up by their own bootstraps. This is new.

Yes