Belmont Plateau HS 5K

Joe Rosa ran 15:19 there as a junior.

what did Footlocker finalist Mike McClafferty run at Belmont back in the day?

So Joe Rosa at 15:19 in 2009 is the course record holder. Anyone else break 15:30?

That is one tough course.

For many years no one broke 16, when Hallinan ran 15:37, that was amazing and when Rose (Joe) ran 15:19 it was off the charts. Belmont has some big hills, which intimidates a lot of kids, but New Jersey athletes know how to run hills and with Belmont, there is no intimidation factor. The main course in New Jersey, Homdel, is probably just as tough as Belmont. I think Hallinan showed everyone the blueprint for how to run Belmont, in that you don't need to go into the woods super fast, you don't need to attack the hills, ran fast down the hills and don't over respect the course. Sub-16s are somewhat commonplace now, but anything in the 15:30s is still quite special.

The local rumor is that the course is slightly longer this year equating the 15:30 to something like 15:15. I have absolutely no way of confirming this but it's a rumor I heard. Also look at the Malvern Prep kid's freshman brother less than a minute behind.

It's not longer so much as it has been remeasured and certified. It's running closer to the 90s course than say the time the Rosa's ran the course.

I remember watching Joe Rosa win the race his sophomore year. I had never heard of the Rosa twins back then, and remember being surprised when the person in the lead had bright red "Ronald McDonald" hair ha.

I have a suspicion that layout run by these guys and Rosa were not 100% identical

Audax wrote:

It's not longer so much as it has been remeasured and certified. It's running closer to the 90s course than say the time the Rosa's ran the course.

Remeasured perhaps, but "certified" is not a thing for XC courses. It would be possible to measure an XC course to USATF standards with a steel tape, but the RRTC will not sign off on certification for XC courses due primarily to the challenge of setting the course up in the exact same manner each time. It's not approved to measured an XC course with a Jones Counter and submit that for approval.

I'm not saying I agree with the USATF not certifying XC courses (nor do I believe XC needs certified courses, but that's an entirely different issue), just saying the above info is the position the RRTC takes related to XC courses and certification.

Way too many words here... If I didn't put you all to sleep, side topic, anybody got a link to a course map for Belmont? I raced an 8k and a 10k there in college and they both kicked my butt. I'm going to be heading back through there in a few months and am thinking I'd like run them again. Anybody know if that course has changed much over the years (I'm talking since the mid 1980's, I'm a dinosaur)? I remember a loop around an open field, then into the woods for multiple loops, then back out onto the main field. Am I off base?

Pretty sure the original 5 mile course is overgrown, ie the hollow, sure kill, nursery, etc. although I did hear that someone or group was going to or perhaps did clear the old paths. It's a shame cause that was an awesome true XC course. The new course is much more spectator friendly, but the old days of guys sprinting to the top of the plateau, getting in a van and racing down to,see everone crest parachute and sure kill...those were the days. Big 5 XC

The 15:30 is very impressive in its own right...if it is on a (slightly?) longer layout than what's been used in recent years then you've got a guy that can make some noise on the national level.

Ndiku's Headband wrote:

The local rumor is that the course is slightly longer this year equating the 15:30 to something like 15:15. I have absolutely no way of confirming this but it's a rumor I heard. Also look at the Malvern Prep kid's freshman brother less than a minute behind.

If a kid most of us have ever heard of ran 15:15 on Belmont the second week in September...that would be extra special or perhaps too special. Btw, it is not difficult to tell if someone ran the correct course or not, the only difference is at around 2.5, you take the first or second cut in on the outside of the baseball field.

I believe this course runs faster or is shorter than when Rosa ran there.

Rosa ran an absurd 14:55 at NJ MOC Holmdel as a Junior same year he ran 15:19 early at Belmont, at the same time frame as these guys. I believe Belmont runs about 10 seconds slower than Holmdel or used to.

These guys are not nearly at Joe Rosa level and ran 15:30 and 30's? So, they would be 15:20 guys at Holmdel. as Juniors, early in the season? I don't think so.

This thread got me curious to see if any course maps might be available, found this:

http://www.mausatf.org/long-distance-running/Belmont-Plateau-course-maps.pdf

. Very impressive work by Dave Thomas and Bill Belleville!! It looks like they have been measured to USATF standards and marks put in place to enable meet organizers to set up the courses in a standard way. Still not certifiable, but reading through their work if there ever was a case that the RRTC starts to allow certification of XC courses this is the kind of standard we should look for.

Looking at the 8k course map, it is definitely different than I remember, but I only raced there twice and it was almost 30 years ago so not sure I trust my memory. The general layout is exactly what I remember. Instead of the start going counter-clockwise around the fields I remember going clockwise. I remember running along what the map calls Dark Road, but it could have been a path in that general area too. I remember running a significant loop out near where the map says Greenland Nursery, then I think up Suicide Hill and down Parachute Hill. I remember running right next to Chamounix Dr, literally in or immediately next to a water drain that was made of bricks for a few hundred yards. Was that a thing back in the day?

Old Hawk - What you call "the hollow", "sure kill", "nursery", any chance you could describe where those are on this map?

Trialswatcher wrote:

I believe this course runs faster or is shorter than when Rosa ran there.

Rosa ran an absurd 14:55 at NJ MOC Holmdel as a Junior same year he ran 15:19 early at Belmont, at the same time frame as these guys. I believe Belmont runs about 10 seconds slower than Holmdel or used to.

These guys are not nearly at Joe Rosa level and ran 15:30 and 30\'s? So, they would be 15:20 guys at Holmdel. as Juniors, early in the season? I don\'t think so.

It actually may be longer than when Rosa ran on it.

Belmont Stakes wrote:

Trialswatcher wrote:

I believe this course runs faster or is shorter than when Rosa ran there.

Rosa ran an absurd 14:55 at NJ MOC Holmdel as a Junior same year he ran 15:19 early at Belmont, at the same time frame as these guys. I believe Belmont runs about 10 seconds slower than Holmdel or used to.

These guys are not nearly at Joe Rosa level and ran 15:30 and 30's? So, they would be 15:20 guys at Holmdel. as Juniors, early in the season? I don't think so.

It actually may be longer than when Rosa ran on it.

Either that or he's probably the best H.S. cross country ruuner in the nation.

TrackCoch wrote:

Belmont Stakes wrote:

It actually may be longer than when Rosa ran on it.

Either that or he's probably the best H.S. cross country ruuner in the nation.

Why would you think those are the only two options? Oh, right, because you're from NJ and anyone within 15 seconds of junior Jim Rosa has got to be better than anyone else in the nation. My bad.

Fabulous history of the course and the great runners who have competed there!