Long run pace?

kod3200 wrote:

I see a lot of users talking about how fast they do their long runs. I'm 17, junior in high school, PR for the 5k is 16:46. I do roughly 50 miles a week, and a 12 mile long run. Typically, my long runs are between 7:30-7:45 pace. However, last year during track I'd do a 10 mile long run usually at 6:30 pace (sometimes even faster than that) simply because I was capable of it. Is there any benefit to running my long runs faster? If I start running them with more effort can I expect to see my 5k time drop more rapidly?

Probably not. 12 miles is already a little long for 50/week; it's more likely you'd end up finding yourself feeling flat and not running well a few weeks later, and wondering why.

As you've found out, the pace of your longer runs drops as you add in some faster stuff. So focus on doing your long runs (heck, all of your workouts) at the right effort, and the pace will take care of itself.

Don't increase the pace. You run them fast enough. Faster than I run them and I am a 15:2x guy.

kod3200 wrote:

I see a lot of users talking about how fast they do their long runs. I'm 17, junior in high school, PR for the 5k is 16:46. I do roughly 50 miles a week, and a 12 mile long run. Typically, my long runs are between 7:30-7:45 pace. However, last year during track I'd do a 10 mile long run usually at 6:30 pace (sometimes even faster than that) simply because I was capable of it. Is there any benefit to running my long runs faster? If I start running them with more effort can I expect to see my 5k time drop more rapidly?

I tend to disagree with the other guys. I think the long run should be a workout and not just time on your feet at an easy pace so you can enter a big number in your logbook. For example, I think 7:30 would be an appropriate easy day pace for you but I think you should be pushing your long runs a bit more. I suggest doing them as a progression: start out at easy pace (7:30) but work down to 6:30 pace so the average is around 7:00 or faster. You ask if there's a benefit to the faster pace. I say yes. For me it is in particular mentally beneficial to push the last half or third of my long run at approximately marathon pace.

crete, I bet that you are not very fast, are you?

letsrun internet coaching wrote:

Probably not. 12 miles is already a little long for 50/week;

Total and complete bull.

my advice wrote:

crete, I bet that you are not very fast, are you?

these days? nah, not particularly. but at least i'm not an azzhole or somehow deluded in to thinking that running 15m for 5k is somehow "fast"

I don't say I'm fast. I only try to say that your training ideas could be a little wrong...

I think I train pretty efficient.

formerly injured runner wrote:

letsrun internet coaching wrote:

Probably not. 12 miles is already a little long for 50/week;

Total and complete bull.

No it's not... that's almost 25%. That's like a 100mpw person doing 24 miles or a 120mpw person doing a weekly marathon.

my advice wrote:

I don't say I'm fast. I only try to say that your training ideas could be a little wrong...

I think I train pretty efficient.

I hardly think I'm the only person who thinks the long run should be considered a workout. I'm surprised you don't know anyone who does their long runs as progessions. For example here's the quick google for results from LRC:

The common theme being the mental benefit of the progression

And please go back and read my first post - what about that did you find antagonistic? I just disagreed and put forth my view to the OP. I don't see a need for you to post a nasty reply to it calling me slow.

I agree. For the last three months or so I have run my long runs (10-15 mi) in exactly this manner, pace included. I start out at around 7:30 or 7:45 and end up closer to 6:30, but sometimes around 7:00. It seems to have worked. I recently smashed my 4-mile PR by 47 seconds. I do not know, though, If I am going to continue in this manner, or let up some once the fall race season is over.

Just my two cents...

I agree. The tone here could have been better...but then again, this is LR. This type of retort is so common here. Too bad.

crete wrote:

I hardly think I'm the only person who thinks the long run should be considered a workout.

For a marathon sure... for a 5k cross country not really

I do 35 mpw but that includes a weekly long run of 11-12 mile at 7.20-7.40 average depending on how I feel in the run. From the above am I right in thinking my long run is too high a % of weekly mileage? I only run 4/5 times a week as building up slowly.

Long run expert wrote:

crete wrote:

I hardly think I'm the only person who thinks the long run should be considered a workout.

For a marathon sure... for a 5k cross country not really

I think it depends on where you are in the season. Early on I think it is more important but as you increase the quality work towards peaking for season's end it is only natural to pull back on the long run (along with your overall volume)

Not necessarily. I run 40-50 per week and my long run is sometimes a good chunk of that. Other factors do apply here. For me, the long run keeps me going. I never thought I would think this, but it is true. I truly enjoy my Sat. or Sun. long run. The weekday sixes and eights seem tedious. Also, I admit that I have difficulty tolerating anything above 8:00 or so pace. For me, that is really tedious, and yet I am far from being the fastest guy around. At 8:00 or so, it feels like baby steps. Sure structure, planning, and science are very important., but we are all individuals, and so there is at least a little "to each his own" in every approach.

As long as you are recovering properly after workouts, you should have no problem picking up the pace of your long run. I would ease pace down gradually. Did you race faster last year, running faster paced long run?

A hard ten miler was the bread and butter of Craig Virgin in his high school training. Of course, he was doing that every day and his total mileage was much higher. I see nothing at all wrong with running a 10M run in 65 every week or two for you. It will make you a lot stronger.

kod3200 wrote:

I see a lot of users talking about how fast they do their long runs. I'm 17, junior in high school, PR for the 5k is 16:46. I do roughly 50 miles a week, and a 12 mile long run. Typically, my long runs are between 7:30-7:45 pace. However, last year during track I'd do a 10 mile long run usually at 6:30 pace (sometimes even faster than that) simply because I was capable of it. Is there any benefit to running my long runs faster? If I start running them with more effort can I expect to see my 5k time drop more rapidly?

In my experience, many people run their easy & long runs too fast, so you've got to be careful emulating them.

You say your 5k PR is 16:46. What kind of shape do you think you're currently in?

I'm with crete on the long run being a workout, but it may not be the best thing for a high school training plan. It's much easier to do when you are out of season or a post collegiate. As a high schooler you'll probably race every weekend and I wouldn't really advise you to hammer the day after a race each week. in college on our off weekends we would regularly run our long runs at 6:00 pace.