Which place? Salt Lake City or Denver?

Salt Lake means learning to accept the Mormon way.

Denver means no worries about people wondering whether you like Mormons or not.

I work at a software company in Salt Lake and there probably 10 Mormons out of 200 employees. Probably not the issue people make it out to be.

SLC has a downtown that is very walkable, even at night. Denver is barely within eyesight of the mountains. SLC is literally at the base of the mountains. I mean, the best ski resorts in the world are around 30 minutes from DOWNTOWN.

Oh yeah, no tornadoes her either.

Salty Lakes wrote:

Salt Lake means learning to accept the Mormon way.

Denver means no worries about people wondering whether you like Mormons or not.

SLC is about 50% Mormon, so the influence is big people who live their say that you can find your niche and not be overwhelmed. Skiing and mountains are a little more accessible in SLC area. Denver is bigger, more Wild West feel. Great areas within an hour or two away.

Certain life-enhancing plants are legal in Colorado.

Even getting a beer can be a hassle in UT.

Live north and east of Denver, out on the plains ... you can see our place about 5 min before you land when coming in from the north.

All depends on what you are looking for. I was in SLC the last week of 2013. SLC is fine. Seems to me that you can be "away" from SLC in a shorter period of time. "Denver" basically goes from Colorado Springs to Fort Collins ... it is only 15 - 20 miles wide but is ~100 miles long, without much differentiation between the cities along the way ... and no real demarcation between them. Going east, you can be in the middle of nowhere very quick. I can be on dirt roads in between wheat fields, with zero cars within 10 minutes of my house. Going west ... there are really only a handful of ways to get into the mountains ... one of which is I-70, and it is a PITA during the winter, and on holiday weekends. Getting to the ski areas is easy, getting back from the ski areas might take 6 hours. The same goes for holiday weekends ... Memorial Day, 4th of July, Labor day ... always stop and go between Idaho Springs and Georgetown, or Idaho springs and Eisenhower Tunnel.

Southeasterner wrote:

Things such as best school districts for kids, best spots to move with elementary and middle school-aged kids, ...

It is easy to get a beer in Utah. The weird laws and dominate culture don't mess anything up in a meaningful way. Salt Lake, as mentioned above, has substantially better access to mountains than Denver. The only place the mormon influence would matter is schools. For adults, Salt Lake is fine. The original poster is moving to the burbs with school aged kids. Utah public schools are essentially mormon schools.

Most places have catholic, jewish, etc private schools. Utah does not have mormon private schools because all levels of public education are predominately mormon. Religion classes, scheduled like a normal class and held during the school day, are held on campus in LDS buildings. Most of the kids in any suburban school will be mormon, and will shun non mormon kids who don't convert.

If you are mormon, move your family to Utah. If not, Colorado.

SLC has a really weird vibe. No thanks.

Thanks to everyone for responding so far.

Are the Utah public schools really bad? We don't stereotype anyone, but do they really preach Mormon practices in the schools? If we are not Mormon, could we get employed by the school system? Rumor has it that most public schools in Utah will be getting a D or F as their upcoming school grade this fall...are they that bad?

Denver is a larger area and we would love to live in an area that allows us to enjoy the trails easily. The only experience we have is co springs for a couple of days in the early 2000's...garden of the gods was nice, but want more than that. Denver schools don't seem that bad, so long as you live in the right areas ( which are ??)...

Geographically, I really like the SLC area. In fact, I love it. Hugely underrated. However, it is a wasteland culturally compared to Denver. DIA is also a larger airport than SLC, which can be significant if you're ever flying across the country or internationally. I'm an atheist, so I could not live in SLC or anywhere in Utah, so I would choose Denver, but I actually like the SLC area more.

Both are similar in terms of climate. SLC has better access to the mountains and nature activities as the mountains are closer. Colorado has limitless outdoor possibilities though because of the fact half the state is covered in mountains. You will likely run into more people when you go hiking in Colorado though also.

Both would be enormous improvements over Flordia.

You should be able to look up some stats on schools. I was under the impression that Utah schools are among the best in the US.

Denver has fine schools and bad schools--pretty much like any other major city.

Southeasterner wrote:

Thanks to everyone for responding so far.

Are the Utah public schools really bad? We don't stereotype anyone, but do they really preach Mormon practices in the schools? If we are not Mormon, could we get employed by the school system? Rumor has it that most public schools in Utah will be getting a D or F as their upcoming school grade this fall...are they that bad?

Denver is a larger area and we would love to live in an area that allows us to enjoy the trails easily. The only experience we have is co springs for a couple of days in the early 2000's...garden of the gods was nice, but want more than that. Denver schools don't seem that bad, so long as you live in the right areas ( which are ??)...

(Disclaimer: I am a "Mormon" (or more correctly a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints) and I attended school in Utah.

About the schools, religion classes are NOT taught on campus. Members of the church can apply for "release time" where for one class period they are allowed to attend seminary in a very very nearby building owned by the church (but its not actually on campus and its a different building). I felt that the education that I received was fairly good. I think the key (just as it is in any school or state) is to try and take as many AP and honors classes as possible to avoid the idiots who don't care about school.

Religion was never an issue in the classroom. I very rarely knew whether or not my teachers were Mormon and when I did know, special care seemed to be taken by them to avoid religious topics in class. (So yes, to answer your question there are many who are not mormon who teach at the schools.)

I think one of the keys is which suburb you choose to live in. Avoid places like South Jordan, Kaysville, Herriman, etc which are very very mormon. I grew up in a suburb that was marketed as "less mormon" so there were quite a few kids at my school (I'd say at least half) that were not mormon. Many of my friends fell into that category and it wasn't really an issue, but I could see it being different in schools where like 90% are mormon.

Also, concerning the grading and ranking of the education system....

It is my understanding that Utah's primary weakness in education rankings is government spending.

While Utah is among the best in the nation for percentage of state budget spent on education, it is among the worst for spending per student. This is because of the large average family size in Utah and the significant percentage of the population under the age of 18.

I've never lived in Utah, but I grew up in western Colorado-which has a moderately large LDS population, and my brother lives in southern Idaho-which is pretty similar to Utah from a Mormon perspective. I have lived in suburban Denver (Lakewood-on the west side) since 1990.

Mormons are very nice people-they are honest, hardworking, and at least superficially friendly. They are somewhat exclusionary when going beyond that superficial level. Some families are fine with their kids hanging out with "gentiles" but dating, or going to prom might be frowned upon. Not all families are like this-like any religious sect, there are different levels. In general Mormons are far more observant that other religions in my experience-but I have never found them to be judgmental-or even have them seriously try to convert me. I have had a lot more of that kind of stuff with southern Baptists, frankly.

In terms of living in Denver. There are multiple school districts. On the west side of town, Jefferson County Public Schools is the largest district in the state-with 90,000 students. Schools are mixed-the wealthier areas tend to have better schools, the poorer areas worse schools. I don't think it's a spending issue so much as a population issue. Crackheads don't make their kids do homework-and some of the neighborhoods in the inner ring of suburbs have grown pretty marginal the last 30 years. Denver Public Schools, within the city of Denver proper, have a sketchy reputation. There are some positive schools-East, South, Thomas Jefferson, George Washington-that have produced some very strong graduates-but their average SAT scores are pretty dismal. I would avoid DPS. Cherry Creek Schools are reputed to be among the best in the city-they are southeast part of the metro area. The schools are generally large-athletic powerhouses. I've never met any exceptional graduates from those schools-I have met exceptional people from Denver South and East-schools without the strong reputation. Douglas County south of Denver (Highlands Ranch and points south) has been taken over by rightwingers. Their schools are in turmoil. The buildings are new-30 years ago there was 1 high school in the county-now I think there are six. Very fast growing area. Aurora is sketchy, areas up north I don't know much about, but there reputation is also marginal.

If you move to a wealthier zip code, your school will be better. Trail running is more varied on the west side-but areas southeast have access to Cherry Creek Park and the Highline Canal-which are wonderful.

do some research on the air quality in SLC, it's absolutely horrible for long stretches of time. any chance you could live in Park City?

SLC in the winter months is basically like living in parts of industrialized China

I have heard about this smog...people suggested living up and above the city by about 1000 ft...would this solve the problem or does it make outdoor activity limited and if so, how long? Is the lake accessible to outdoor kayaking or boating?

As for Denver, how long is the commute around the area...are there particular spots to avoid? What do people consider traffic? Is it a 30 minute commute that could/should take 10 minutes on the weekend? Or is it generally over 60 minutes? A typical 30 mile drive on Long Island could take 70-90 minutes...in Florida, people are mad with 20 minutes of local driving...yet it only takes 60 minutes to drive 60-70 miles to the theme parks...traffic moves very smoothly...

It sounds like getting to the high mountains in Denver is faced with lots of traffic...is there an easier way to get there? And if so, where should one look to move?

Is Denver better than Colorado Springs for families?

Cost of living seems to be the same between SLC and Denver...am I correct?

Denver has bad smog in winter too.The only horrible traffic occurs going clear going across town in rush hour. Don't live in Boulder and work in the tech Center. If you live in Highlands Ranch or southeast, working in the tech center ain't bad. IF you work downtown, Lakewood ain't bad-but southeast or Highlands Ranch would be miserable. There's a lightrail about half finished-buy a house near it, and work near it if you can if you are worried about traffic getting downtown. I live in south Lakewood-I can get to my job in Golden in 15 minutes with no traffic, and 20-25 at 7:45. It's 15 miles away. Tech Center is 40 minutes in traffic, probably 25 when it's free flow. Downtown is about the same. The only people I know with hour commutes are going from Boulder to the Tech Center, or Aurora to Golden. Most of them go in early and leave early and turn it into 40 minutes.Traffic to the mountains on I-70 is bad on weekend mornings, and horrible returning on Sunday afternoons. However, if you can live without Keystone, Breckenridge, Copper and Vail, there is no shortage of mountains near US 285, or up SH 119 or even as far north as Poudre Canyon. Breckenridge is not a horrible drive up 285. It's a guaranteed 1:45. On I-70, it can be done in 80 minutes, but can also take 2 1/2 or 3 hours. If you adjust your drive time, I-70 isn't bad. If you go up at 8:00 on Saturday morning, and return at 4:00 on Sunday afternoon, it will be miserable, year round. I try to leave by 6:30 or so-and I can get to Keystone or Abasin or Mary Jane in an hour. If I wait to leave at 7:15-it will take 90 minutes or 2 hours. Leaving for home late is better than early on Sunday. Traffic is heavy from noon on. If I hang until 8:00 or so, it's not bad. If you have a job with Fridays or Mondays off-problem solved.Ski traffic ain't all that in Utah. Those narrow canyons can go quick, but they also get closed for avalanche control for hours on powder days. Snow in Utah is really nice, but I'll take Vail, Abasin, Copper Mountain and even Winter Park over any mountain in the Beehive state. Colorado Springs is a dump. I'd never live there. Run down, full of military and right wing Christian fundamentalists. If you're worried about Mormons-Colorado Springs is far more "interesting" from a religious perspective. A lot of people live in north Colorado Springs and Monument, and work in the Tech Center (which is the south end of Denver along I-25) They've got a 30-45 minute commute-but it can be gnarly in the winter. I just don't understand the appeal of the Springs, though. Monument is a little nicer, and 10 minutes closer to Denver.

The smog can get bad at times (BAD) in SLC but it's not your classic "smog" weather. It's an inversion and the air gets trapped for a week or two at a time and is horrible. However, it gets real clear occasionally too.

The commute is much easier now along the Wasatch Front with the new UTA Frontrunner commuter rail system and expanded Trax light rail system. Check out Sugarhouse (got a new street car system).

Plus, living in SLC you'll have access to Zion/Bryce/Moab/Arches/Canyonlands/etc within an easy day's drive.

I lived one year in SLC while teaching skiing at Snowbird. Now I live in Denver.

Denver is infinitely better, and it is mainly because of the SLC mormon vibe.

1) The weather is better in Denver. SLC has these weird fog/smog inversions for most of the winter. You can't see the city from the mountain most days because of a dense cloud sitting on the city up to 6000 feet. Summers are hotter in SLC, but it's not to hot to keep you from doing anything.

2) The mountains are about the same distance. Where I live in Denver, I can run from my house to 7000 feet in 5 miles. I am at the very base of the mountain. People out in Aurora are 30 minutes from the mountains. In SLC, it is the same situation. If you live downtown or in Sandy, you are right at the hill. If you live out by the airport, you are 20-30 minutes out.

3) There ain't a lot to do in SLC except for outdoor recreation. Bad mormon vibe. Denver has the normal city things to do.

4) Schools in SLC and Utah are subpar. Again, the bad mormon vibe.

I grew up in Centennial south of Denver (it used to be unincorporated Littleton). Good public schools about 10 years ago; I assume that's still the case. Honestly, it's good for a family. There are sketchy areas as in any place but overall very good for a family. I have friends who live in the Southglenn area and like it a lot. Littleton School District is good.