Help with Half Marathon Plateau

*Bump*

...anyone able to offer any advice?

Thanks

Going back to what worked for you before seems like the smart thing to do. Good luck.

What was the temperature/humidity when you raced?

train smart wrote:

What was the temperature/humidity when you raced?

Humidity was about 65% and temperature around 65-70F, which seems "OK"?

I agree with your analysis. You don't say what your long runs are, but they may need to be longer. May also need to get back to 70 mpw. Sounds like your aerobic engine is underdeveloped compared to your past, and that's what is causing you to fade. Also try to finish some long runs with MP or HMP to simulate the end of the race - both physically and mentally. Learn how to fight through those doubts at the end. Good luck.

Fyi, according to Daniel's tables, anything between 65 and 70 degrees could cost you over a minute.

http://www.electricblues.com/archive/DanielsTables3-00-00.xls

(Clicking on that link will download a spreadsheet).

I assume the answer is no but have you gained weight?

Thanks for the replies.

Thanks, that's interesting. I did peak at 85 MPW during my previous marathon training, and had an illness from november-january over the last winter. I assumed because my tempo and interval paces were faster at same effort level, then I was back to where I was? But maybe aerobically I lost something from time away, and haven't had the same base to recover it? Long runs have been between 12-15, with some quality but these are nowhere near the Daniels Marathon training longs runs (tempo/long run/tempo) I was doing.

Possibly a few pounds, but not significantly.

Wasn't aware of that. Puts a slightly more positive spin on it.

Again, thanks for replies. Appreciated.

Increase your weekly mileage. It'll improve you aerobically.

Also, taking a season to focus on 10k training could help you a lot by improving your speed, but use that as a last resort.

this would be my FIRST suggestion (not a season of focus on the 10K, but looking to improve your 10K in general, can be easily done during HM training). you need to be doing both under and over distance work to see HM improvement - 10K pace work (with a little 3-5K pace work) and marathon pace work should make up the majority of your harder running after specific HM pace stuff! try 4x2K @ 10K pace w/3min rest...very high-end aerobic workout. getting comfortable at 10K pace will make HM pace feel that much easier, you'll be way more efficient and the onset of fatigue while running HM pace will be delayed. I also second the addition of M pace running at the end of your long run to simulate the fatigue you feel during the latter stages of the HM. try a 14 miler where you go out 7 easy & relaxed, then back 7 at M pace. really forces you to focus & will make you stronger mentally.

agc5k wrote:

Also, taking a season to focus on 10k training could help you a lot by improving your speed, but use that as a last resort.

You need continuous hard tempo, bordering on TT for 8-10km.

You need more practice at what you're actually trying to do and that's running pretty fast for a long period of time.

Thanks for the suggestions.

all speeds are important! wrote:

I also second the addition of M pace running at the end of your long run to simulate the fatigue you feel during the latter stages of the HM. try a 14 miler where you go out 7 easy & relaxed, then back 7 at M pace. really forces you to focus & will make you stronger mentally.

You need more practice at what you're actually trying to do and that's running pretty fast for a long period of time.

This sounds good, and what I thought I needed to be doing, good to have it confirmed.

I had a similar experience where I did interval/tempo sessions on par with where I was during marathon training, but I struggled in my HM on lower mileage compared to my HM during my marathon training. My takeaway was that I needed the benefits of higher mileage to achieve at both distances, so I returned my attention to base building to increase mileage before racing another HM.

Put me down for agreeing with:

-add runs @ M pace

-more mileage

-keep T-pace workouts

-keep some of the faster-than-goal-pace workouts (i.e. 10k & 5k pace), but obviously dial back some on frequency to make room for the M-pace workouts.

Also, it sounds like you are very familiar with, if not using the Daniels Formula. Do you have the 3rd edition? It has a very good half-marathon plan in it.

Finally, if you are following Daniels, do you have any races to support training at the 58-59 VDOT level at the moment? That's a 1:19-1:20'ish half, so it'd have to be a different race distance, obviously. If not, then I'd consider backing off on your workout paces to your current fitness levels. This will obviously make the workouts easier. That will make it much easier to fit in the additional mileage you seem to need. Remeber, just because you can run tempo runs at 6:00 pace doesn't necessarily mean you should. A 1:23 half is 56 VDOT (6:15 T pace) and 1:24:18 is 55 VDOT (6:20 pace).

From my own experiences: fast 5k, slower half, and much slower marathon, it seems that it works well to pull my I-paces from my 5k VDOT, the T-paces from the 10k/Half VDOTs, and E-paces from the marathon. When I based them all off my 5k time (or especially 1-mile time), the T & E paces were just too fast. My LT was weaker than the 5k suggested (evidenced by the slow 10-mile & half marathon race times), so I needed to back off to get the proper stimulus.

Do I care?

Brodellero wrote:

Do I care?

typical letsrun. 1:18:30 is my prediction

Mojo or not-O wrote:

Brodellero wrote:

Do I care?

typical letsrun. 1:18:30 is my prediction

Brodellero wrote:

Mojo or not-O wrote:

typical letsrun. 1:18:30 is my prediction

typical yo ass, my prediction is epic fail pants sh,it halfway through and DNF.

Mojo or not-O wrote:

Brodellero wrote: typical yo ass, my prediction is epic fail pants sh,it halfway through and DNF.

2 questions: how close did you come to getting a highschool diploma and what trailer park do you live in?