Sore quads 2 days after XC race. Do a tempo today?

sat- race

sun- recov

mon- long run

tues- recov

wed- tempo

the ncaa is full of coaches who pull the race/long run or race/workout double whammy. physiologically it makes zero sense to race sat then tempo monday.

Take it easy. You raced hard didn't you? You have to recover before you go hard again.

By definition, tempo runs are not all out (about 15 sec/mile slower than your 8k pace).

Questions: Did your coach tell you to run hard at the race on Sat? Will your coach blow a gasket if you run 30 sec/mile slower for your tempo?

You may have to spend the next week sandbagging every run that you can to recover...good luck.

Some studies have shown that the real muscle fatigue does not set in until 2 days after a hard workout or race. As such, some coaches advise stacking workouts back to back. Soreness is not always a good indicator of fatigue. Sometimes you need to suck it up and just do the workout. Your teammates and opponents probably would.

Long Green Line wrote:

Sometimes you need to suck it up and just do the workout. Your teammates and opponents probably would.

Why be like them? Just to fit in? Why not train smarter and race faster than them? Afraid of being different?

train smart wrote:

Long Green Line wrote:

Sometimes you need to suck it up and just do the workout. Your teammates and opponents probably would.

Why be like them? Just to fit in? Why not train smarter and race faster than them? Afraid of being different?

How do you know the other guys aren't sore and just able to race and train harder?

The guy on the team that takes special recovery days is never the best guy on the team. He needs more recovery because he's the weakest. That won't change.

I believe in training smart, don't you? The smarter your training, the easier it gets, not harder. The guy who wins the race is hurting less than the guy who finishes last.

Long Green Line wrote:

Some studies have shown that the real muscle fatigue does not set in until 2 days after a hard workout or race. As such, some coaches advise stacking workouts back to back. Soreness is not always a good indicator of fatigue. Sometimes you need to suck it up and just do the workout. Your teammates and opponents probably would.

I did the workout and feel fine now. Must've just been finishing up the fatigue. So can someone explain why I am not running faster in Cross (5k)?

Monday: AM 3, PM hard run 7-8

Tuesday: 5

Wednesday: AM 3, PM hard 6

Thursday: 5

Friday: 4

Saturday: Race 10

Sunday: XT

My 5 mile hard run is 6:10/mi pace, and I am only running 18:50 for 5k. The hard run is on pavement and the cross race does have some elevation and is on grass. Does that seem right with the conversions?

The issue is that no one knows what smart training is...and those who think they do...only know what smart training is for some athletes.

Anyway, you are supposed to be tired during hard training- if you wait to feel fresh and sharp before doing hard work...you won't get enough hard work in

Are you choking on race day? I would regularly run 5-7 mile tempos at 6:10 pace when I was in 1:58/4:27/9:45/15:30 shape for 800/1600/3200/3 mile and those felt like hard workouts! Seems like you're doing too little mileage and at too fast a pace. Would suggest running your interval days hard and then focusing on increasing your mileage while running easy on the other days.

Long Green Line wrote:

Are you choking on race day? I would regularly run 5-7 mile tempos at 6:10 pace when I was in 1:58/4:27/9:45/15:30 shape for 800/1600/3200/3 mile and those felt like hard workouts! Seems like you're doing too little mileage and at too fast a pace. Would suggest running your interval days hard and then focusing on increasing your mileage while running easy on the other days.

I just started running this April, but have a cycling background of lots of easy miles, zone 2 kind of stuff (100 milers etc). Perhaps my endurance far outweighs my speed?

Agip wrote:

The issue is that no one knows what smart training is...and those who think they do...only know what smart training is for some athletes.

Anyway, you are supposed to be tired during hard training- if you wait to feel fresh and sharp before doing hard work...you won't get enough hard work in

Agip, I'll make it easy for you by defining a smart training methodology that is fool proof:

Don't push the pace, let the pace come to you and it will. Keep doing this until you reach the limit of your ambition. You will never reach the limit of your genetic potential.

Maybe the OP had sore quads from some extra curricular activity? But if it was from racing, then that would require a certain amount of injury preventative caution and respect don't you think?

It could just be from slamming the downhills in the race.

Perfectly feasible to do a tempo on slightly sore quads if the tempo is on level ground or even slightly uphill.

If you only go hard when things are perfect you will be detraining between harder sessions.

The most gains are accomplished when the body is not quite recovered from the previous session. That keeps the body guessing and in adaptive mode.

CWG wrote:

It could just be from slamming the downhills in the race.

Perfectly feasible to do a tempo on slightly sore quads if the tempo is on level ground or even slightly uphill.

If you only go hard when things are perfect you will be detraining between harder sessions.

The most gains are accomplished when the body is not quite recovered from the previous session. That keeps the body guessing and in adaptive mode.

I agree with you. I did the run anyways and my legs don't feel trashed, actually better.

train smart wrote:

Agip wrote:

The issue is that no one knows what smart training is...and those who think they do...only know what smart training is for some athletes.

Anyway, you are supposed to be tired during hard training- if you wait to feel fresh and sharp before doing hard work...you won't get enough hard work in

Agip, I'll make it easy for you by defining a smart training methodology that is fool proof:

Don't push the pace, let the pace come to you and it will. Keep doing this until you reach the limit of your ambition. You will never reach the limit of your genetic potential.

Maybe the OP had sore quads from some extra curricular activity? But if it was from racing, then that would require a certain amount of injury preventative caution and respect don't you think?

maybe. Maybe not.

I know I am often sore after hard workouts...and I'm still sore when I start the next hard workout...but usually I run the 2nd workout really well and the soreness is gone by the end.

I am rarely hurt tho - I'm a workhorse - more sessions the better for me - I need to work hard to run fast. My best races are always when I am tired from high miles and hard work.

But other people need to recover between sessions for one reason or another.

The idea of 'smart training' principles that everyone should follow is flawed.

Wottle won the OG gold going hard M, T, W and easy Th, F S and Sun. I mean really.

CWG wrote:

It could just be from slamming the downhills in the race.

Perfectly feasible to do a tempo on slightly sore quads if the tempo is on level ground or even slightly uphill.

If you only go hard when things are perfect you will be detraining between harder sessions.

The most gains are accomplished when the body is not quite recovered from the previous session. That keeps the body guessing and in adaptive mode.

I agree, but I think that in that case, which curently applies to me also, a few easy days are the best way to train. But it does depend how sore those legs are.