A year later, I still haven't improved. Need some help, LetsRun

Op

Go to the track. run 400m repeats with a short jog recover. Do this at least 2x per week. Keep running most days at least 5 miles. You will get better. You might not reach your peak until your mid 20's.

Do not be wrapped up in running as your goal and life. You appear to be a very good student, and as you grow and age, you will become stronger on your daily runs from the years of accumulated mileage. And, while you might become a person with a high stressed position, you might very well find that running is a great release.

If you never get any faster, it's just not that big of a deal.

All you can do is try.

Hey, thank you for the quick reply.

In track, I actually somehow excelled in 400 repeats. We had a 12x400 workout with 1 min recovery between each, as well as a 1 lap very slow jog after 6 400s - I averaged like 1:14 for the 12.

It's just that running has taken up so much of my time. I know this might sound pretentious or whatever, but pretty much in anything academic that I spend the amount of time that i dedicate to running, I end up doing a lot better. I guess it is just that I'm not used to spending so much time on one thing yet not being great at it.

How can 30-35 miles per week take up a lot of your time?

well no way for us to know if you have found your limit, but the good part of running is that the game can be for a lifetime. Meaning, you may flatline for a year, but then find huge improvement afterward if you stick with it.

but what should you do now? Don't worry about the time trial - it's not a race and the season hasn't even started. use it for motivation if you want, but not discouragement.

Stay with the XC - clearly you love being on a team and for many, xc is a closer knit group of people than track.

this article is the best thing I've found for 5k type training - the good part is that it is simple and makes it clear the different types of workouts you should be doing. Check the list of workouts at the end and make sure you are doing them all.

and run at least 40 mpw - there's no substitute for miles.

http://www.runnersworld.com/race-training/solving-5k-puzzle

the 30-35 miles a week didn't really take that much time - I had to limit my mileage (i wanted to go to 45-50) because of my internship as well as the research I am doing this summer. But throughout the year - for example,during track practice, which was 2 hours, plus a 45 minute commute back home, plus 6+ hour longs meets. That's what devoured my days and my weekends sometimes. XC practice is also 2 hours Monday-Friday with about a 15 minute commute to practice and 15 back.

How was the weather for the 12:20 you just ran?

If it was hot and last year it was not so hot, you could have improved 20 or even 30 seconds.

Did you run the same number of miles and pace over the summer before your junior and senior XC seasons?

There is NO WAY you have plateaued but that doesn't mean that any haphazard training is going to make you better and better forever.

Are you training with your team over the summer or just running (slowly) on your own?

Most likely you need to do BOTH summer style training and the in season type of training and racing to access all the benefits of another year of running.

if you spent the summer building a base by only running slowly, or if you didn't really run much over the summer why would you expect to run faster than last year? Wait til the reps, intervals, etc...kick in. If you still don't improve then there is probably a flaw in your training. Don't quit XC because the training will help you for the 800.

What type of "speed" do you have?

Weather: Honestly, the weather was great both years. The race was at 7:30 AM and I recall last year had great weather, and so did this year. It was probably 60 degrees and not humid or anything. There's no excuse for the weather I think.

Mileage: Yeah, I think a big fault was that I ran pretty much the same amount this year as I did last year. This year I really would've done more... My schedule all of summer was pretty much wake up at 7:00 am for work, come back at 2 pm, then go to the lab between 4 and 9:30 PM. Between 2 pm and 4 pm (when I'm at home) it was the hottest time of the day, so I avoided running then. When i got home at 10 PM I ran every day for 30-60 minutes. That's what made up my 30-35 mpw.

Training with the team: Apparently the county does not allow for "off-season" training, so the coaches aren't allowed to start practices until early August. I was running on my own.

I think I'm probably better in track. But overall I'm still bad at both.

2:18 in the 800 I think, somehow I ran 59 in the 400. Though my body isn't right for the 400 (I am 5 ft 8, 135 pounds)

What have the 30-35 mpw looked like? Mostly easy runs with occasional hard repeats? I'm guessing you could greatly benefit from more tempo running if you haven't already been doing it. That 400 workout indicates you have the raw speed to be a lot faster than you are over longer distances, you just need to work on building endurance.

I didn't have access to a track. Most days I would just run a slow pace with a pickup at the last 2-3 miles. The longest run in there was 7 miles, though most were between 4-6 miles. I would do 1 hill workout a week and also tried to do 1 tempo/week. I recall doing some tempos, but not very often, one of them was a 4 mile tempo with the first mile in 7:45, then the next 3 miles in 20:05 (overall time was 27:50) in my neighborhood, which is flat.

Need some serious advice wrote:

I think I'm probably better in track. But overall I'm still bad at both.

2:18 in the 800 I think, somehow I ran 59 in the 400. Though my body isn't right for the 400 (I am 5 ft 8, 135 pounds)

How is your body not right for the 400? What does height and weight have to do with it?

I feel weak during the 400. As in, during the 800, I can set into a fast, controlled pace. But the 400 is pretty much a sprint, and when I'm running it, I feel like I can't dig into the track and really push my legs to go faster. And about the height and weight - my height is fine, I guess, though I think I don't weigh enough.

That is a pretty busy schedule. It doesn't look like you got enough sleep for either running OR DOING A GOOD JOB AT RESEARCH. Research is about thinking not spending mindless hours in the lab. Though at your age any research is good experience even if you were not thinking about it as hard as you should have been.

Actually, that is good advice for training as well, you can't just keep repeating the same mindless miles.

Did you just run EZ or did you manage to have a couple of days where you ran some 800 pace strides, some 7:00 ish tempo runs and some 3:15 or so repeat 800s?

If you haven't done anything under 7:00 all summer then XC season training will help.

My research is going pretty well actually. Yeah, I pretty much got ~5 hours a sleep per day, but I slept on the commute. And also, though it is called the 'lab,' a lot of the time I was doing calculations (I am modeling new materials, ever heard of graphene and graphene-like derivatives?)

7:00 pace tempo runs usually are slower than what I run tempos at. In track, when we did 800 repeats, my average split was usually 2:45-2:50, for say a 6x800 workout with 2 min recovery.

Yes, I know of graphene. I know you may not have many choices but I would suggest you try to spend more time in the lab either making better materials or making better measurements and less time calculating. Modeling is kind of like trying to get better at running by changing the routes you run. You may see different things but you always end up where you started.

With a PR of 19:30 XC, you shouldn't be doing tempos much faster than 7:00 but the more important questions are how many tempos did you do this summer?

And did you start them out in June at say 7:20 or 7:10 pace and slowly speed them up to 6:50 or 6:40 pace or did you just start running near races thinking the harder and more times you ran hard the more you would improve?

If you don't slowly move the paces up over time it is kind of like trying to run a program to model a material that you have never even read a paper about. Your body or brain doesn't know where to start to improve itself and so you gain nothing.

Your training seems fine. You will get better. Just stay consistent, increase mileage slowly over time, run at a variety of paces each week (though most of it easy), continue to work on raw speed and high end aerobic stuff throughout the year, and try not to over-do it on too many workouts and I'm confident you'll steadily progress.

For what it's worth, I don't think I could run a 400m faster than a 59 right now, but I'm probably capable of a 16 min 5k and 1:14 half marathon. Of course I'm older and my mileage is higher, but the point is you have plenty of room to improve. The biggest thing holding you back right now is aerobic development, which will come with consistency and smart training.

Need some serious advice wrote:

I feel weak during the 400. As in, during the 800, I can set into a fast, controlled pace. But the 400 is pretty much a sprint, and when I'm running it, I feel like I can't dig into the track and really push my legs to go faster. And about the height and weight - my height is fine, I guess, though I think I don't weigh enough.

What does weight have to do with running a good 400? Doesn't Mo Farah only weigh 130 pounds? He seems to have no problem CLOSING in 52 seconds.

I think you should also think about your form. Your footplant, knee lift, etc. Is your stride too long? How are your arms moving? And are you pronating your feet?