appropriate tempo length/pace for sub 28min XC 8km

No, a tempo run is slower thAn race pace. Typical tempos to prepare for an 8km would be:

2-3 miles at 5k pace plus 15 sec/mile

3-4 miles at 5k pace plus 20-30 sec/mile

6-7 miles at 5k pace plus 30 sec/mile

Aside, with those PRs and a little strength (tempos and mileage) you can run WAY faster than 28. 25 flat is probably a reasonable goal if you want it.

So to clearly those would all be ran during the same session or no?

And I never broken 17 for a 5k yet. To be far I havent tried all to hard.

No, those are alternatives. It would more or less kill you to run all that at once.

A lot of programs vary the distance and speed of tempos from one session to the next... variation in the stimulus can have a better training effect than doing the same session over and over, though there is nothing wrong with just doing a solid 5M tempo every week. It will accomplish a lot.

For example, I alternate between a 3 mile tempo at about 5:20-5:25 pace and a five mile tempo at about 5:35 pace. If I was younger (I'm getting pretty %$^ old) I'd make both sessions a mile longer before making them faster. The weekly interval sessions is where I'd prioritize quality over quantity, and just run whatever volume I could handle at the target pace.

Given that your 600 and 800 are by far your best events and your 400 and 1500 are about equal you are probably a speed oriented mid distance runner. Because of this I would recommend that you only run a tempo once or twice a month and use them mainly for mental training. Focus on fartleks for you endurance training as tempo runs will most likely wear you down.

Also, given how speedy you are and the drop off from your 800 to 1500 I would guess that you would need to be in about 9:10-15 and 16:30-40 shape for 3k and 5k to go sub 28 for 8k.

Guesstimate current 10 k fitness. Start with LT of 80%/85% of " for example" 80%/85% of 33:00 min. 10 k @ 4 to 6 mi. 1 time a week for 3 weeks ending w/ 6 to 8 mile 3rd week. Then increase effort to 90%/95% of 10 k fitness for tempo effort, 3 to 5 mi. This assumes you have an adequate base.

Longer than race and slower than race pace. As you get fitter you lower tempo pace.

My PR is 24:27 for 8k. If you are going for 28 minutes I'd go for a 4 mile tempo at race pace+ 5 seconds per mile. If you can do that on your own you can should be able to run your 28 minutes

The guy who said you should do fartlek instead has it right. If you are determined to do a tempo run, just practice going further and further at 6:30 pace. You are too good at the short distance and too bad at the long distances to pick a tempo pace from a chart. Before you can run tempo you need to make 6:30 pace feel like you are walking.

Almost forgot, 6:30 pace on grass with rolling hills if possible.

Have to respectfully disagree about the 6:30 pace runs being effective as a tempo. Much too slow for the desired effect.

Great input guys! My off day runs are about 7min miles for 6-7miles. im going to try the 4 mile tempo at 5:40 and get back to you guys. It will be a bit of touch and feel. But its still pretty early so I can afford it.

midrange canuk wrote:

Great input guys! My off day runs are about 7min miles for 6-7miles. im going to try the 4 mile tempo at 5:40 and get back to you guys. It will be a bit of touch and feel. But its still pretty early so I can afford it.

Way too fast if you can't break 28 for 8k. Do 4 miles at 6:00, or even 6:10-15. If that feels reasonable -- a tempo run is not a time trial -- you can speed up some next week. You will be much better prepared for XC if you do these regularly at a reasonable pace.

Again, I have to respectfully disagree about 6:00 - 6:15 pace... this guy can run a mile in the low 4:20s. Six minute pace is not likely to be hovering on aerobic threshold, which is what a tempo should be.

I do agree that you might just do these by feel rather than by the watch. I rarely run tempos in a situation where I know the exact pace. I run intervals on the track where the pace (rather than the effort) is the focus, but for tempos I think it is most productive to run by feel. "I have to focus to hold this, but I could speed up if I had to" is the target.

sc42 wrote:

Again, I have to respectfully disagree about 6:00 - 6:15 pace... this guy can run a mile in the low 4:20s. Six minute pace is not likely to be hovering on aerobic threshold, which is what a tempo should be.

He has run a 4:06 1500 (~4:26 mile) but with a 1:55 800 and 1:23 600 which are much better. He is very speed based and it would be smarter to start out slower for endurance work and increase the pace/ distanc if it is too easy.

sc42 did you run across the country several years back?

There is NO doubt during his racing season he will run 4 miles on grass at 5:40. So we want to get him ready for it.

The first thing we suggested was fartlek on grass. Has the OP even run on grass all summer? This should be his hard workout. One minute on one or even two minutes off that will help him the most. Aim to do more repeats (limit 20 then cut rest from say 2 minutes to 1:45)rather than run the minutes faster.

His second workout can be a tempo this workout shouldn't be hard it should just get him doing something he doesn't normally do. Running 6 or 7 miles at 6:30 pace would be a great first tempo workout. 7 days later trying 5 at 6:15 even better.

It is better to go into practice ready to try to run 4 miles at 5:40 when the coach asks for it rather than have tried it 4 times and only successfully completed the workout once.

la cucarach***

Since an aerobically developed runner who has run 1:55/4:06 should be able to run under 27 at the very least, you obviously need to increase your mileage, do longer long runs, build strength through progressions, and push your tempo pace to achieve big gains at that distance. If you can run a 4M tempo at 5:40 without breaking down, then do them and soon enough 28 will be a distant memory. You might do the first tempo at something like 6/5:55/5:50/5:40, or a bit faster, and then try the second tempo a week later at the pace of your last mile the previous week. You'll see quick improvements.

to give you an idea of what my fitness is heres what ive been doing the last couple weeks(2). this is coming off a week or so break from the outdoor track session.

2 days of interval training a week ex ( 3x1min with 90sec rest, then 3x6min with 3 min rest, then 3x1min) thats an example, we did like 6x2min,5x90sec,4x1min aswell) im not sure how fast, but the effort was large. also 3-4 times a week i go on 6-8mile runs. the 6miles are medium effort and around 7min/miles and the 8miles are about the same effort ( a tad easier) at 7:30/mile

jjjjjjjjj wrote:

Since an aerobically developed runner who has run 1:55/4:06 should be able to run under 27 at the very least.

Maybe not sub 27 but your 8k time seems way out of whack compared to your other marks. How do you run 1:55 and only 4:06? What am I missing here?

Anyway, I went high 27s on a relatively tough CC course last year and tempod out around 6:05 or so for 5 miles that season. 5:50 for 3. Progressive tempo for me b/c I'm old and have 2 start out slow. Would build to 5:4x pace to finish, sometimes a touch faster. Sounds like you need strength; more mileage and more tempos, longer runs @ sustained effort. Wish I had your speed still. Good luck.

ok, you want 5:36s.

3-5 miles at about 5:45 pace. it's a broad spectrum bro. such is the tempo. it's all about le effort.

some days you might run 3 miles at 5:52 pace, and others, you might feel pretty good and get rollin at 5:40 pace the last 3 mile of a 5 miler.