46 yr old ran 18:05 5k road race on 25 mpw

4 days of running isn't enough

and 10 miles isn't a long run unless you run 10min/mi

just run 5-6 days per week, build up your mileage

shouldnt be too tough

possible but hard to do it.

it seems you have a balanced week, but 25 miles is not enough. i am not a high mileage fan and I recently ran a sub-15:30 barely running 50 mpw, but 25 is too low.

you need to try more sets in your intervals - 15x400, 8x800, 6x1000.

also i don't like your rest, 400 sets with 200 active rest, if this active rest is done in about 1:30 you are resting more than running. Why don't you try 10-15x400@85 with 100m active rest? that will be much more effective for your goal.

the same for 6x800 w/ 400 jog. You are jogging more than running. You have the power to run a sub 17 and your 80's 400 sets show that, but you lack aerobic capacity because you rest too much in your intervals. This has to be done only in specific periods of your training.

You don't say anything about your running background.

How many years have you been running?

How many miles have accumulated on your legs?

At 47 I ran in the low 17's on four days a week of training but I was in my 24th year of consistent training and my 20th year of racing. I had a fair amount of mileage under my belt with years of 70 mpw in my 30's and early 40's. I had a great deal of background so I could get away either it.

So how about more background info?

Forget it.

My current plan is to train for AZ Rock N Roll half focusing on building my miles, shooting for a sub 1:25. During the winter months transition to 5k training focusing on speed endurance and try to hit a mid 17 by next spring. Then repeat the process for the next year shooting for sub 17 by the spring of 2016. Ideally, I would like to position myself for a run at a top 3 age group finish at Carlsbad 5000 by my 50th birthday. Figure 4 years should be plenty of time to build my fitness to that level.

Not really any advice on what to do but

When I was 39 I ran in the high 16s low 17s with pretty much the same training you have been doing. I got down to 75s for my 400s and 2:40 or better for my 800s and did 5 mile tempo runs at around 6 minute pace. Usually ran 3 days a week for 28-30 miles and did the stairmaster the other days.

After a long non running injury, I came back at 45 and ran a 23:20 4 mile which age grades about the same. I did absolutely no speed work or tempos. I would run a hard hilly hour on the roads, a hard flat hour on the roads the following day and an easy hilly trail run the 3rd day. I would take the 4th day off and then repeat. I then did a lot of races and watched my time keep dropping.

A couple years ago I got in pretty good shape doing two runs every week averaging 15 miles per run. My 5k times were slower, but I could run great races from 10-15 miles.

At 49, I have been averaging 65-70 miles a week but not racing any to see how much I can drop my times when I turn 50. I would be thrilled to get under 18 for 5k.

The only thing you can do is gradually increase either the volume or intensity of your training and hope you stay healthy and keep improving. It gets much harder the older you get.

Balian wrote:

You don't say anything about your running background.

How many years have you been running?

How many miles have accumulated on your legs?

At 47 I ran in the low 17's on four days a week of training but I was in my 24th year of consistent training and my 20th year of racing. I had a fair amount of mileage under my belt with years of 70 mpw in my 30's and early 40's. I had a great deal of background so I could get away either it.

So how about more background info?

Been running for over 30 years. Ran XC and track HS ; 4:40 mile, 2:01 800 and 16:40 5k. Did not compete in college but continued to run for fitness. Started running road races in 2005 and started getting semi serious in 2010. Ran first Carlsbad 5000 in 2010 and now I am hooked and would love to add that age group medal to my collection.

rfmaioral wrote:

possible but hard to do it.

it seems you have a balanced week, but 25 miles is not enough. i am not a high mileage fan and I recently ran a sub-15:30 barely running 50 mpw, but 25 is too low.

you need to try more sets in your intervals - 15x400, 8x800, 6x1000.

also i don't like your rest, 400 sets with 200 active rest, if this active rest is done in about 1:30 you are resting more than running. Why don't you try 10-15x400@85 with 100m active rest? that will be much more effective for your goal.

the same for 6x800 w/ 400 jog. You are jogging more than running. You have the power to run a sub 17 and your 80's 400 sets show that, but you lack aerobic capacity because you rest too much in your intervals. This has to be done only in specific periods of your training.

I like your suggestion of adjusting my interval split times and shortening my rests. Part of my problem is that I am very conservative with pushing my limitations because of fear of injury. I notice that in my racing, I am afraid of pushing my self to run on the edge. I run strong but feel I got more if I could run with more reckless abandoned.

Staying healthy and injury free is the challenge. You carry some good mileage, you must be a good half marathoner. Sub 18 is the first hurdle and hope my middle distance genes hold up.

Um, yes. I ran 17:30 on 45 mpw at 48.

I ran 17:01 at 51 on 50 mpw. so, yes.

If you are a runner, who in your younger days you put up decent times and had some quality weeks with high mileage, it only makes sense that later in life

you could handle 20-40 mpw, and still do well in shorter races.

I actually average 25mpw and have run as high as 40 miles in a week but not often. And I rarely run more than 5 days in a week. In my 9 years of road racing I have only run 2 half marathons an no full marathons. In fact, I don't race very well in distances over 8k. My fastest 10k was a 40:20 back in 2010. I ran a 2:25 800 a year ago off my 5k training and a 1:06 400. So, I suppose I still got some fast twitch fibers left in me.

Sub 17 in your late forties is very ambitious, but doable for someone who is at 18 flat on a fairly moderate training plan. Obviously, there are no tricks to it. You need to train as hard as you can without getting injured. You also need to fight the natural decline in speed that comes after 45. You should be doing one quality session a week (track intervals, tempos, fartleks, etc.). You should also try to work in a hill session each week. Short and steep hill sprints are the best thing you can do to develop speed and strengthen your glutes. Form drills, plyos and other strength training circuit workouts will also help out fighting the natural decline in speed. And easy strides on off days will also improve your turnover. The main goal of all the supplemental stuff is to get more strength and turnover in your legs so you can push your limits during quality sessions without getting injured.

I ran 17:46 at age 47 on a training plan somewhat similar to yours. I was running about 40-45 mpw and 4-5 times/week at that time. Most weeks I was doing a short intervals, long intervals, soft tempo and progressive long run with a bit of swimming and cycling on other days. At that time my short interval workout would be something like 12x400 with 200 active rest starting at about:78s and descending to :72s. Long intervals would be 800s, 1200s or miles, with 800s at about 2:40-2:45, and 3xmile at about 5:50, 5:45, 5:40. The Sunday long run was 12 miles and would start at a very comfortable pace with the last 2-3 miles building steadily to finish at about 10K race pace or faster.

17:46 was my masters high point. After age 47 I started noticing even slower recovery times from workouts, and even with increased mileage I never went faster than 18:18 for a 5K. Good luck with your goal.

asutrackfan wrote:

Ideally, I would like to position myself for a run at a top 3 age group finish at Carlsbad 5000 by my 50th birthday. Figure 4 years should be plenty of time to build my fitness to that level.

Yes - I think you can get there (sub 17). More consistency in your training. Optimally, 6 days a week with some 12-14 day stretches. I like the idea of moving down from 1/2 mare training. I also like the long window of time you plan on giving yourself to get there.

But just being sub 17 won't get you top 3 in CBAD amongst other late 40s/early 50s runners.

Best of luck.

Staying injury-free is the KEY....backing off when necessary. What are you currently running for 5K in the ARR Summer Series?

I'd increase miles on the days you run but not add in days.

Recovery and avoiding injury is the key.

I wouldn't run long every week but every other week instead and on the alternate weeks I'd either run a race or a medium run of 7-8 miles.

Stay focused on 5k. You could run some 8k and 10k races for strength and perhaps some 800-1 mile races if you have all comer meets in your area.

Don't get lured into the half marathon craze.

Race at least 10 x a year at your target distance. Do the races in streaks like 5 races over 10 weeks. Races will help you improve.

Ca$hclay wrote:

asutrackfan wrote:

Ideally, I would like to position myself for a run at a top 3 age group finish at Carlsbad 5000 by my 50th birthday. Figure 4 years should be plenty of time to build my fitness to that level.

But just being sub 17 won't get you top 3 in CBAD amongst other late 40s/early 50s runners.

http://running.competitor.com/cgiresults?eId=36&eiId=176&seId=581&resultsPage=1&rowCount=25&firstname=&lastname=&bib=&gender=M&division=M_45-49&city=&state=&submit=http://running.competitor.com/cgiresults?eId=36&eiId=176&seId=581&resultsPage=1&rowCount=25&firstname=&lastname=&bib=&gender=&division=M_50-54&city=&state=&submit=

Best of luck.

Yeah, I looked those results too and I am no where near fit enough for top three in the 45 to 49 and probably never will be. Those guys are fast and some close to age grade world class. That is why I am targeting the 50-54 group for my attempt. Give me some time to build the fitness needed to compete for it. It won't be easy and I have never had higher than H.S. coaching or competition, which is a huge hurdle. I never trained or compeated at a high level. The guys I will be running against probably have. I hope 4 years of smart training and more agressive racing on my part will at least get me in the fray. At worst, I hope to nail some sub 18 PR's and a top ten finish in my age group.

messi wrote:

[quote]asutrackfan wrote:

[quote]Hoka Hoka One One One wrote:

Staying injury-free is the KEY....backing off when necessary. What are you currently running for 5K in the ARR Summer Series?

No haven't run in any of the ARR races this summer. Pretty much just running base mileage. I might do the Jerome Hill climb or the Saguaro National Park run over Labor Day. I have always wanted to run the 8 miler, very scenic place to run, but it will be hot.

Balian wrote:

I'd increase miles on the days you run but not add in days.

Recovery and avoiding injury is the key.

I wouldn't run long every week but every other week instead and on the alternate weeks I'd either run a race or a medium run of 7-8 miles.

Stay focused on 5k. You could run some 8k and 10k races for strength and perhaps some 800-1 mile races if you have all comer meets in your area.

Don't get lured into the half marathon craze.

Race at least 10 x a year at your target distance. Do the races in streaks like 5 races over 10 weeks. Races will help you improve.

Good info, thanks...Already signed up for AZ rock n roll half. Going to use it help build long distance endurance so I can close the third mile leg of my 5k's stronger. I plan on running at least one race a month to sharpen my racing skills and bench mark my fitness. I am a middlle distance guy at heart, doubt I will get hooked on the half marathons.