400m - No Improvement

Keep it going. Don't change too much. Improvements come in steps. You'll break 1:50 soon. Just trust yourself and your coach.

50 secs I mean...

Yes, be patient. You could be a slow maturer. Improvement isn't always a straight line. Oftentimes, it's flat, then you take a large jump, then plateau again before taking another jump.

What's the greater context of your training? How many years have you been going, and do you train as a middle distance runner or a sprinter? Any improvement is good, and don't be disheartened by a 52, despite what many people (on here) will say, those are serious wheels

It could be you matured early, and ran close to your potential at 16. It is also possible you will continue to mature and are nowhere near your potential.

You have to ask yourself if you enjoy trying to improve your times despite no guarantees that you will. If you do enjoy the sport, just stick with it and relax. Nothing wrong with looking at your training and trying to sort out if it is the best training for you or not, but no sense in overly stressing either.

My suspicion is that at 17, even if you did mature early, you have more in you just from cumulative years of training. If you are not done maturing, then you have a lot more in you probably. Just let it happen, this takes years.

How do your best lifts for reps--leg press, leg curl, standing calf raises, etc. compare--then Vs. now?

Also, read wejo's "why I sucked in college". It's for a distance runner, but it applies to sprinting too. You have to relax and not try too hard. If you struggle, back down! Don't try even harder. It won't work. You risk burning out way before you're even close to your potential.

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2006/09/wejo-speaks-why-i-sucked-in-college/

One important thing to remember is to run faster you have to change the way you run the race. If you typically run 24 through the 200 and finish in 28 then you wont run faster than 52. Work on coming through in 23 and finish in 27 and run 50. You have to understand your race distribution and what areas you need to work on. This is just a basic example your race distribution could be different. Try different thing and find what works best for you.

big wrote:

One important thing to remember is to run faster you have to change the way you run the race. If you typically run 24 through the 200 and finish in 28 then you wont run faster than 52. Work on coming through in 23 and finish in 27 and run 50. You have to understand your race distribution and what areas you need to work on. This is just a basic example your race distribution could be different. Try different thing and find what works best for you.

Horrible advice. Do the exact opposite. If you're going on in 24 and closing in 28 you're going out too fast. MJ ran his best races with about a 1 sec differmce between his first and second 200. 4 secs is not good and is a common failure people do trying to run faster.

Also if running faster was as easy as going out harder and closing harder everyone would do it. Also ridiculously poor advice

Hey guys, in order to run faster, trying running the first 200 and second 200 faster! That'll give you a faster time....really????

52.7 is a nice time for a high school runner. You might be close to your potential limits. Improvements can come but can be very small PRs.

If I was your coach I would try to have you work also on other distances like the 200m or 800m.

I ran 51.0 and 1:55.1 in High School. I don't think I had enough speed to improve my 400 much with 5 years of College.

After two years of college I improved my 800m time down to 1:51.2 and never faster. I put my focus on moving up and ran 4:03 in the mile Senior year.

Would you mind posting some of your training?

2 X Around wrote:

52.7 is a nice time for a high school runner. You might be close to your potential limits. Improvements can come but can be very small PRs.

If I was your coach I would try to have you work also on other distances like the 200m or 800m.

I ran 51.0 and 1:55.1 in High School. I don't think I had enough speed to improve my 400 much with 5 years of College.

After two years of college I improved my 800m time down to 1:51.2 and never faster. I put my focus on moving up and ran 4:03 in the mile Senior year.

I was similar. I also took a growth spurt that stalled my progress for a year before bouncing out a great season.

I'm surprised no one mentioned your weight earlier. You might weigh too little at 58kg = 128lb to generate enough power to run 51. Running 51 requires minimum 24.2ish 200m speed if you are training as a middle distance runner. For a sprinter, you need 23mid wheels to run 51.

I'd suggest bulking up a bit and lifting more. Of course this is best done in the off-season since it'll slow you down in the short run temporarily.

Thanks for the replies everyone! Firstly, I train as a long sprinter i.e. for 400m. Occasionally I run 200, my best time is 24.08 (+1.6 wind) so I'm not particularly quick compared to others my age (22-23 seconds). I don't do any sort of weights or lifting, although I did a lot of core-work during the off-season until April (circuits with my coach or push-ups/sit-ups/squats at home). This is my second year training as a long sprinter, prior to that I trained twice a week for general speed and fitness development.

Currently during race-season a typical week of training could be:

Saturday - Special Endurance - 300m, 30secs, 100m (12-15min recovery) 200m, 30secs, 200m (12-15min recovery) 150m (all reps 100%)

Sunday - Recovery - 10 x 100m stride-outs (3min recovery) (80%?)

Monday - Speed - 3 x fly30m or 3 x 50m from blocks followed by, 90m, 120m, 150m, 120m, 90m (6min recovery)

Tuesday - Aerobic - 5km (19/20 minutes)

Wednesday - Speed Endurance - 6 x 150m (6min recovery)

Thursday+Friday - Rest

(All workouts include full warm-up + drills)

You don't seem to be doing any 400m specific endurance work. I'm a masters 400m runner. I've been following Mike Hurst/kitkat's 400m GPP for 6 weeks now with good results.

Here are two links to his program:

http://speedendurance.com/2013/02/22/interview-mike-hurst-journalist-400m-coach/

http://media.speedendurance.com/Mike_Hurst_on_400m_training.pdf

Give me your email, if you have any questions.

ronanwalsh97 wrote:

I don't do any sort of weights or lifting, although I did a lot of core-work during the off-season until April (circuits with my coach or push-ups/sit-ups/squats at home). This is my second year training as a long sprinter,

First of all if this is your second year of training as a long sprinter, why are you in such a panic? The 400 is a difficult race and it takes time to get good at it. Quit worrying so much.

Second of all, and this is the most important thing, you said you don't lift weights. That is like a marathon runner saying they do not do long runs. Go to the weight room and get stronger. Research what type of lifting other 400 runners do and figure out what works for you. Your 200 time will definitely drop and your 400 time should drop from that increase in speed.

Quit worrying, give yourself some time and lift. You will improve, 100% guaranteed!

Have you ever raced an 800?

You have to decide on your own what advice you want to take. There is not one way to do anything. You have to do what works. It takes a good coach to help you figure that out sometimes. Trust me my advice is not horrible. But I don't need anyone to tell me That.

Upper body and core strength is hugely important in the 400 meters. By the time you hit the home straight you should feel like your legs are going to give out. At that point you rely on your arms, pumping your elbows back with your shoulders as relaxed as possible. Your legs will follow. Keep your elbows at 90 degrees and brush your shorts as you swing your arms. Your arms should come up to eye level

Weight-wise your never going to be a LaShawn Merritt (13 stone) or Kirania James (11 stone 6) but Olympic Silver medalist Lugelin Santos is 9 stone 10, so you may want to do some research in to his regimen.

You do need to increase your weight without increasing body fat. Increase your protein. Eat lean, chicken breast instead of legs, lean red meats, ask your Mum to get the 95% lean mince. Eat fish, without batter. Get some good fats, tuna, salmon, olive oil and nutsare ideal. Don't use salad dressings, use a tablespoon of olive oil instead. Eat crisps and chips less less often. Scrambled egg-whites are better than fried eggs. Drink skim milk. Minimize your intake of soft drinks and beer. Get extra portions of veggies.

If you don't have access to weights then you can still weight-train. The are free apps on Google Play and Apple Store that will help you increase your max number of press-ups

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.rittr.pushups&hl=en

. If you can't do a full pull-up kneel on a chair. You can do front and side shoulder raises by filling 2 gallon jugs with water.

Core, hips and glutes. There are plenty of body weight exercises. You may want to consider a rubber band with a felt pad that goes under the door

http://store.gofit.net/GoFit-Tube-Band-Door-Anchor-p/gf-stda.htm

For glute and exercises you can lean on your elbows, stretching a leg out straight and doing large circles, clenching your bum. You can add back and side kicks, side leg raises and crabs using rubber resistance bands. exrx.net is a great resource.

For core, obviously front and side planks

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.plankathon2&hl=en

, half crunches (to protect your back), bicycles, leg raises and lots more.

Flexibility is important. Michael Johnson says his performances improved after adding stretching to his regime.

Mental attitude. You can decide what is best for you, being relaxed and chatty before a race or focusing 100% on what you want to do.

Michael Johnson's race tactics. Go out hard over the first 50. Cruise the next 150 focusing on turnover. When you hit 200, refocus and run the third quarter as if it's your last. Run on the inside of your lane. When you hit the home straight say a prayer, even if you are an atheist and rely on pumping those arms.

Race rehearsal. Run 250s an 300s using the above race tactics. I assume you use spikes and blocks.

Run hard workouts on successive days, to ensure you get used to working out tired.

Long runs aren't that important. 40 minutes should be enough.

All the above is based on research I've been doing over the last 12 months. Others feel free to disagree. I suggest you do the same and find out what suits you.

I like this guy's site

http://www.brianmac.co.uk/sprints/tp400.htm