Thresholds & Capacities--Definitions Please (jtupper, Tinman, Joe Rubio, anyone?)

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Aerobic Threshold - the speed, velocity or intensity which elicits a rise in lactate above the baseline aerobic steady state. It is more technically called the OPLA, onset of plasma lactate accumulation. It equals an intensity about 2-3% slower than your marathon race pace. Substantial improvements in aerobic endurance occur when one trains at or above OPLA, or AT, as I call it (not to be confused with AnT, which is anaerobic threshold).

Anaerobic Threshold, synonymous with Lactate Threshold, almost the same as ventilatory threshold, maximum steady steady lactate, or lactate turnpoint - the speed, velocity, or intensity that elicits the second rise in lactate which exceeds a pure steady state of lactate. Even at marathon pace, one has a steady lactate rate. Once the velocity hits 20k to 10k pace, lactate starts to accumulate without staying at a level rate. In other words, it tends to gradually rise or rapidly rise with small increases in speed. I simplify life by calculating AnT or LT as being 20k speed.

Aerobic Capacity (aka VO2 max) in exercise science terms is the maximum amount of oxygen one can consume and use to generate force such for running or whatever activity is being used to elicit one's highest oxygen consumption level. Aerobic capacity is defined in absolute or relative terms. In absolute terms, no consideration for a runner's body weight is included. So, consuming 5 liters of O2 per minutes is an example of absolute VO2 max. In relative terms, body weight is factored into the mix. So, 75 milliliters of O2, per kilogram of body weight, per minute would define max VO2 in relative terms.

Aerobic Capacity is different from Aerobic Power. Power denotes application. One can have a very high Aerobic Capacity (max VO2) yet not have a very high Aerobic Power. Someone like Keninisa Bekele, Geb, or Hicham have very high aerobic power levels. They can run very fast at their max VO2 level. As coaches and runners, we seek to elevate aerobic power. What good is having a high aerobic capacity without being able to use it well?

Anaerobic Capacity is the maximum amount of ATP that one can generate via a process that uses no oxygen. This ability is created by working very intensely in running. It is hard to go far if you are doing anaerobic capacity training because fatigue builds quickly. The by-product of anaerobic capacity training is lactic acid which converts to lactate, an acidic compound that has hydrogens attached to it. Hydrogens are bad dudes when it comes to exercise. They limit or prevent force output and make one feel very tired in a hurry.

Anaerobic Power is the application of anaerobic capacity. Can you run fast or not is the real question. Just because one has a high anaerobic capacity does not necessarily mean one can run with great speed. One has to hone that capacity to produce speed.

Alactic Capacity is an anaeorbic short-term energy process the creates ATP for work puposes. This process is limited to about 6 seconds or less, at full effort. Their is not lactate accumulation if one uses alactic reps such as 30m sprints. But, it takes about 3 minutes to fully regenerate CP(creatine phophate), so if you cut the rest breaks between 30m sprints short, the way you body continues to do the sprints is borrow energy from the anaerobic capacity sector. Therefore, if you cut the rest breaks short, you will build lactate, even though the rep distance is short.

Alactic Power is the application of alactic capacity. If you can generate a lot of velocity while sprinting, you have a high alactic power output.

I hope that helps some. Tinman

For most people 20K pace would be a bit slower than normally what is considered LT pace. 15K is probably closer or better yet all out one hour pace.

20K seems a bit long for determining LT pace.

Great post Tinman. Thanks for the info.

luv2 run, I know and agree. If you look at Jack Daniel' LT pace, you will see that it is exactly 20k pace too. I just add 4% to the 10k pace or 8% to the 5k pace to get LT. It may not be necessary for us to be overly picky. The goal is to be fairly close, just as one should be fairly close to 5k speed, plus or minus a few seconds to improve max VO2. Thanks for sharing. Tinman

Any formula for calculating the Aerobic Threshold pace?

You said earlier that AnT was 5k-pace in secs divided by 0.93

AeT pace is highly variable depending on training.

Aerobic Threshold is about 18% slower than 5k pace. Tinman

But Tinman, further up you wrote, "It equals an intensity about 2-3% slower than your marathon race pace."

So is it BOTH?

Tinman wrote:Aerobic Threshold is about 18% slower than 5k pace.

I disagree, in that you've presented AeT as a constant number, or at least constant ratio of race pace.

At the start of this year my 5k pace was about 5:30 and AeT was around 6:30, or 18% slower. After a year concentrating mostly on aerobic development, my 5k pace is 5:13 and AeT is about 5:55, or about 13% slower. Therefore, at least in this single experiment of one, highly variable depending on training.

that guy wrote:

Okay--so a lot of people (like me) seem to be confused about the different paces associated with the following terms.

Anaerobic Threshold

Aerobic Threshold

Lactate Threshold

Aerobic Capacity

Anaerobic Capacity

I was hoping to get some clariification here...possibly from jtupper or Tinman or Joe Rubio, or from any of their devoted fans.

What are these paces? How are they determined? And if anyone is feeling particularly prolific, how important are they to 5K-10K performance?

It seems to be a muddled area of discussion here, so I am seeking some lucidity.

Thanks.

Lucidity I'm not sure I can get done, but maybe I can help out a bit.

I'd go with what Tinman wrote for the definitions. He says it much better than I would.

What helps me is knowing not so much the definitions, but how you use them in everyday workouts. I'll add to the definitions by providing the % range each represents and how we use it in our workout structure here. The main difference is I use the terms from the Coe/Martin book as the basis of the terms because most athletes and coaches have it and is widely accepted as a reliable book, so it’s a more universal way to talk the same language. Obviously for further detailed info, go there. I borrow the term aerobic conditioning to signify a range of paces, aerobic threshold is the fastest pace within the aerobic conditioning range and I use the term anaerobic conditioning for the range of paces that includes lactate threshold with lactate threshold being the fastest of the anaerobic conditioning paces.

Aerobic Conditioning: 55-75% vVO2max

Anaerobic Conditioning: 75-90% vVO2max

Aerobic Capacity: 90-100% vVO2max

Anaerobic Capacity: 100%+ vVO2max

Kind of important to know what the heck vVO2max is so you can use the above for your own benefit. This is a notation for velocity at VO2max. VO2max by itself tells little really of anything we can use in real life training, the velocity or speed you can run for a particular period of time on the other hand is pretty useful for setting up workout paces. There are several tests to determine vVO2max. A widely used and reliable test is the Balkke (sp) Test. You have someone lace up the spikes and run as far as they can, as fast as they can for 15 min, you convert the distance covered to a velocity (ie 400m pace for 15 min) and there's your vVO2max. Since most of the decent males and very good female athletes are right around 15 min or so for a 5k, we generally use a 5k time from the recent past to set that individual's vVO2max. What if you run 14 flat or 18 flat 5k? Not a big deal really for what we're doing. We just want a velocity for roughly 15 min of hard running, most will run faster in a 5k race, so we use that. Now some say it should 3k pace and not 5k pace since some tests last for 10 minutes. I've found though that 3k pace appears to me too fast if used for too long. It just kills people who are running 10-11 min pace for 2 mile or better. To accommodate all this I go with 5k pace as the vVO2max for the majority of the year since I'm liberal in every aspect of my life except workout paces, where I am like Ronnie Regan, ultra conservative until the final few weeks where I throw out that idea and instead want to push the envelope, so during the final month or so of the season we use the faster 3k pace as our vVO2max. Also, I'll use 3k pace as vVO2max for a 400/800 runners most of the year since their 5k's usually stink and using that to set paces is really letting them off the hook.

So there ya go, run 5k race, figure out your 400 split and that's your vVO2max for now. Based on the above, here’s the workouts:

Aerobic Conditioning: 55-75% vVO2max

-Easier runs from 20-120 min.

-The above 15 min athlete would be running 6:25-8:40 pace here, pretty easy running for the most part, hardly heroic.

Anaerobic Conditioning: 75-90% vVO2max

-Steady state/tempo runs such as a long run at a few ticxks slower than MP all the way to lactate threshold. This is the running the Kenyans and most other top runners do a lot of, also the paces I imagine Lydiard had in mind during his base period.

-The above 15 flat athlete would be running between 5:20-6:40 pace to address this energy system’s development. We use the following as a rough guideline for length of a continuous steady state/tempo/strong effort run at particular %:

90%: 20-30 min

85%: 30-40 min

80%: 40-50 min

75%: 50-60 min

I've got a newsletter from the MITCA outlining the Colorado program and they are showing long runs (20% weekly mileage) and mid week long runs (15% weekly mileage) are performed at 85% vVO2max each week, which is moving. It's roughly marathon race pace. We slow it down a few notches from what they're doing. Remember on the above chart any pace within 75-90% vVO2max is developing the system, so if the 15 flat kid does a weekend long run finishing the last hour at roughly 6:15 pace, runs 10 in the hills hammering home the last 6 miles from 5:40-5:50 pace, does his Thurs 12 miler with the last 45 min at 6 flat pace, a Saturday 4 mile "tempo" run at 5:20 pace, he/she has touched that system 4 times that week. It's not just the "tempo" run that is developing the system, it's any run with any portion of it from 1-2 miles up to 10 or more at 75-90% vVO2max, so in the “base” period we are looking to do a variety of runs within this 75-90% to address development of anaerobic conditioning. That's our goal then of the true base period, to develop anaerobic conditioning to a very high level for that athlete.

Aerobic Capacity: 90-100% vVO2max

-This is stuff at roughly 5k, 10k and tempo pace for most athletes, for our top athletes at the end of the year, we'll throw 3k pace into this category too. We usually keep the reps at 400, 800 and 1k at the longest for stuff at 5k-10k pace, occasionally we'll do mile reps, maybe 2k's but not that often. A tough thing for many to learn is that this system’s development starts at 90% which is "tempo" pace, so early on in the season you want to do reps at tempo pace, maybe a second or two per 400 faster than "tempo" pace and work down Most think this is too easy when in reality it’s a standard progression.

-Paces for the 15 flat kid here are 5:20-4:48 pace

Anaerobic Capacity: 100%+ vVO2max

-This is stuff at 3k pace or faster.

-For the 15 flat kid, it's reps at better than 4:48 pace. We usually go no longer than 800m here and then only for a few weeks at the end of the season. Most of the work is in the 200-400m rep range.

The above are rough estimates and ranges of efforts. They aren't written in stone, Anthony Perkins won't visit you in your shower if you run faster or slower. They serve 2 functions really. Teach young runners the proper intensity and effort and they tend to slow down the better runners which if you know better runners, they can usually benefit from not killing themselves every day. Most just plain over-bake themselves which following the guidelines above tends to alleviate.

Hope that helps. Done with the lunch break, back to working on the catalog.

Joe

Tinman and Joe,

Thank you so much for your input...and Joe, thanks for the "above and beyond" here...

Anyone else want to chime in?

I'll chime in just to say: thanks, Tinman and Joe R. You are magnificently generous with your time and wisdom, and it is appreciated. Those are excellent and incredibly useful definitions. I'm printing out this thread and stapling it into my running journal for future reference.

and thanks Pete, the thought behind your post is very important.

Actually, I have a follow up question that will help me make sure I truly understand the difference between "aerobic threshold" and "marathon pace."

Last weekend I ran a hard, flat 5K and ran 20:00, which is 6:26 pace.

The next morning I went out on a planned 15-mile run and felt surprisingly good. I ran miles 9-15 in 52 minutes or so, which turned out to be 7:25 pace. A brisk pace for me, but sub-threshold: I was working hard and well but not breathing particularly hard, if that makes any sense. My LT pace is around 7:00, I think. This was below that.

According to McMillan's calculator, 7:25 pace is pretty much my marathon pace, or maybe slightly faster than my marathon pace.

When I got home, I pulled out a long thread in which Carolina Runner reprints a lot of John Kellogg's old training threads, and there was something about "aerobic threshold" being just about one minute slower than 5K pace. So I said to myself, "Aha! That's what I was running this morning: aerobic threshold pace." Then I said, "So I bet that aerobic threshold is really just another name for marathon pace."

Well, Tinman's post here suggests that I was ALMOST right, but not quite.

My question is, what WAS that seven miles of 7:25 pace that I ran? Was it marathon pace? If it was, what then would my "true" aerobic threshold pace have been, if my 5K pace is 6:26/mile?

Any and all clarifications are welcome. Call me an idiot if that's what I am. But do answer my questions; there'll be one less idiot, next time around.

Aerobic threshold is basically a minute above 5k pace, so you were right at your aerobic threshold.

To add to the question list:

1. What would be some examples of anaerobic power workouts, and what greater purpose would they serve?

2. On the same note, what about anaerobic capacity?

I am sure that some of you could derive answers to these from what Rubio and Tinman already posted, but I could not, so again, any help here would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

dc449 wrote:Aerobic threshold is basically a minute above 5k pace, so you were right at your aerobic threshold.

This may be true in the case of the athlete with poor aerobic conditioning (say, as an example, me at the beginning of the year), but is definitely NOT true in the case of the athlete who has worked on aerobic abilities.

I think this is one of the essential differences of opinion between those who focus (mostly) on short reps and those who focus on (mostly) longer aerobic workouts - the recognition (or lack thereof) of the importance of aerobic conditioning and the role it can play in overall fitness, and the recognition that one can improve their aerobic conditioning through specific training, as a means of supporting selected harder training and achieving more consistent results.

Good point, thats definately true. I find it to be a good rule of thumb, as most people arent well developed aerobically. I prefer to go by feel myself.