How does a second tier US runner become a 13:02.80 performer?

but this is letsrun wrote:

While you're at it, look up some of these former athletes from the heartland and a bygone era. None of those guys was considered "great" in college, by your standards 2nd tier or lower.

Mike Durkin - 2 time Olympian

Mark Nenow - 27:20 10000 m

Greg Meyer - 2:09:00 at Boston

Dick Beardsley - from 32 min 10K runner to 2:08:53

Phil Coppess - didn't even go to college, self-coached/single dad/factory worker that ran 2:10:05

At least get your facts straight. Meyer was a multiple All-America in XC (top 10), indoors, and the steeplechase.

Durkin was a great college runner, multiple All-America, as well. ONE Olympic team (76)

Previous poster had it right. there is no caste system in running. You climb the ladder one rung at a time. Some runners start higher on the ladder. Some of them climb it faster. Some don't even bother climbing anymore.

QUESTION: How does a second tier US runner become a 13:02.80 performer?

4runner wrote:

The same way you get to Carnegie Hall.

Practice, practice, practice.

Tyrannosaurus Rexing wrote:

wrong answer.

RIGHT ANSWER:

Um, ever heard of East African genes???

WRONG ANSWER

[quote]Rkogvemoivtvrmov,ok wrote:

I could write a long resposne, but the shortest answer is the potential was always there and the better question is what took him so long? His talent level years ago was comparable to Jager, Derrick and Fernandez and he's finally getting to where he should be.

This thread title reminds me of the question "How do you get to Carnegie Hall?".

Practice Practice Practice

4runner wrote:

How does a second tier US runner become a 13:02.80 performer?

The same way you get to Carnegie Hall.

Practice, practice, practice.

Isn't everyone saying he was injured though?

13:02.80 is what defines him as a second tier runner, so I'm not sure what you're all worked up about. Hopefully he'll break into Tier 1 this summer, but he's only just arrived in Tier 2.

Dennis Reynolds 2.0 wrote:

So what you are saying is training doesn't matter. Jager did not get injured and put in a ton of work over those years while Mead was injured and not running nearly as much as Jager and not putting in nearly the quality of work.

Yet you think them ending up at the same place is reasonable because they started in the same place? Are you freaking kidding me? I know talent matters in this sport but come on man.

joho wrote:

This thread title reminds me of the question "How do you get to Carnegie Hall?".

Practice Practice Practice

This thread reminds ME of the question: "why are there so many great runners born in East Africa?"

genes, genes, genes.

Tyrannosaurus Rexing wrote:

joho wrote:

This thread title reminds me of the question "How do you get to Carnegie Hall?".

Practice Practice Practice

This thread reminds ME of the question: "why are there so many great runners born in East Africa?"

genes, genes, genes.

I recall that the extensive Danish/Kenyan study of young boys found no difference in VO2Max, diet, or lifestyle of aerobic exercise. They did find a huge difference in innate running economy. Running economy is related to genetics....it's like starting with a huge leg up before training even starts. Kenyans simply have better running economy on average than Europeans which means it's a genetic advantage.

Tyrannosaurus Rexing wrote:

joho wrote:

This thread title reminds me of the question "How do you get to Carnegie Hall?".

Practice Practice Practice

This thread reminds ME of the question: "why are there so many great runners born in East Africa?"

genes, genes, genes.

How many of those great runners have run 13:02 without practice?

Er... wrote:

http://www.runnerspace.com/members/images/3026/16381_full.jpg

Dennis Reynolds 2.0 wrote:

So what you are saying is training doesn't matter. Jager did not get injured and put in a ton of work over those years while Mead was injured and not running nearly as much as Jager and not putting in nearly the quality of work.

Yet you think them ending up at the same place is reasonable because they started in the same place? Are you freaking kidding me? I know talent matters in this sport but come on man.

1 injury proves what exactly? I should have said did not get injured often.

fdhdfhgfghf wrote:

Tyrannosaurus Rexing wrote:

This thread reminds ME of the question: "why are there so many great runners born in East Africa?"

genes, genes, genes.

I recall that the extensive Danish/Kenyan study of young boys found no difference in VO2Max, diet, or lifestyle of aerobic exercise. They did find a huge difference in innate running economy. Running economy is related to genetics....it's like starting with a huge leg up before training even starts. Kenyans simply have better running economy on average than Europeans which means it's a genetic advantage.

That may be the case, but it still doesn't mean that a "Tier 2" runner can train his butt off, stay healthy, and run 13:02

tendon elasticity. they are part kangaroo.

4runner wrote:

fdhdfhgfghf wrote:

I recall that the extensive Danish/Kenyan study of young boys found no difference in VO2Max, diet, or lifestyle of aerobic exercise. They did find a huge difference in innate running economy. Running economy is related to genetics....it's like starting with a huge leg up before training even starts. Kenyans simply have better running economy on average than Europeans which means it's a genetic advantage.

That may be the case, but it still doesn't mean that a "Tier 2" runner can train his butt off, stay healthy, and run 13:02

Before training their butts off, all top runners were tier 2 runners. Some tier 2 runners advance to tier 1 and some do not. No one starts off at the top.

Dennis Reynolds 2.0 wrote:

So what you are saying is training doesn't matter. Jager did not get injured and put in a ton of work over those years while Mead was injured and not running nearly as much as Jager and not putting in nearly the quality of work.

Yet you think them ending up at the same place is reasonable because they started in the same place? Are you freaking kidding me? I know talent matters in this sport but come on man.

This thread cracks me up.

1) A guy who was 4th at FL is a 2nd tier talent? Far from it.

2) Mead was 6th at NCAAs as a frosh? That's 2nd tier talent? Far from it.

Mead ran 13:28 at age 19. Rupp's pb at that age was 13:37.

3) To the poster above, you seem to have forgot that Jager had surgery and missed a lot of time as well.

Here is an interesting article on Jager:

-Rojo

PS. Mead's 5k progression

2008 13:44.30 - age 18

2009 13:28.45 - age 19

2011 13:45.68

2012 13:30.21

2013 13:11.80

2014 13:02.80

Rojo's spot on. Mead's big breakthrough was LAST YEAR! Well, that and his senior year of high school or freshman year of college. The kid freakin' ran at the Olympic Trials as a true freshman.

Under letrun rules he is a doper. Fast times = doping. Failed doping test = not doping just some supplement slip up with the steroid dealer

joho wrote:

Tyrannosaurus Rexing wrote:

This thread reminds ME of the question: "why are there so many great runners born in East Africa?"

genes, genes, genes.

How many of those great runners have run 13:02 without practice?

None.

How many runners who have practiced a great deal but weren't extremely talented have run 13:02.

None.

grandmasterL wrote:

you might want to know something about the runner before you call him second tier idiot. He ran through college with multiple injuries and still posted some good times. The fact that he posted a 13:02 with lung surgery is proof hes not "tier two".

You need to reread...he never called him a "second tier idiot".