like that big test run the elites in eldoret do before marathons....is Wilson Kipsang's record on that 40km run still alive?
like that big test run the elites in eldoret do before marathons....is Wilson Kipsang's record on that 40km run still alive?
Who?
Renato Canova wrote:
I want to solve the mystery.
In Kenya, we have a place called Nangili, where all the marathon runners living near Eldoret go for their long run.
About one month before the race, we use to do, with the most part of athletes, 40 km (20 km going a little bit uphill, from 2020m till 2180m of altitude, then coming back, with the second 20 km favourable) very fast, as control of the shape, and this is the last workout of full distance at high intensity.
Before 2010, nobody there ran under 2:13:00.
At the beginning of 2011, we started running faster, and Moses Mosop ran 2:07:15.
After his result in Boston, the most part of top marathon runners started to run faster in that course.
Last year, before London, Abel Kirui ran in 2:04:57, and this became the parameter for the other best athletes.
Wilson, in the past, was used to run in about 2:10:00 (before OG 2:09:12 in muddy conditions).
Looking at an attempt of WR, I advised him to put two new things in his training :
1. Something longer than 40 km (and he ran 45 km at 90% of Marathon speed)
2. More intensity (and consequentely longer recovery in between) in some of his workouts of distance.
So, he went on the normal course in Nangili (I repeat, 40 km with 20 going up and 20 coming back) in 2:03:32, beating the "course record" of Abel Kirui.
You must think I consider about 1 minute of difference every 10 km between the same training at sea level (tarmac and racing shoes) and in Nangili (normally, heavy training shoes and road with less grip). The difference in running there or at sea level, instead, if the condition of the road is the same, in my opinion is about 3.0 per km (30.0 every 10 km). This means Wilson practically ran, 4 weeks before Berlin, 40 km in less than 2 hours, referred to the conditions of the race.
And this is the secret for running fast during the race : running fast in training, and of course to fully recover these hard sessions, otherwise you go to kill yourself.
Renato tends to give insight after big races; i'm trying to get a better idea of what kind of shape the runners are in before the race.
you can't always trust the athletes when they claim to be in good shape, but having an idea of the workouts they have done leading up will give a better idea and help handicap the field.
what about these pace makers? i really hope they can maintain an even pace to 30k. i doubt the WR is going down, but it's rare that the pace makers do a great job of helping in london
51 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 2:03:59 PACE
52 Edwin Kiptoo KEN - PACE
53 Richard Sigei KEN - PACE
54 Fernando Cabada USA 2:11:53 PACE
55 Milton Rotich KEN 2:08:55 PACE
56 Linus Maiyo KEN 2:11:34 PACE
57 Cyprian Kotut KEN - PACE
Cabada is pacing Vail, Haile will be pacing the lead pack...and only 5 other pacers which will be split between the lead, Mo Farah, and others??
vdawg wrote:
what about these pace makers? i really hope they can maintain an even pace to 30k. i doubt the WR is going down, but it's rare that the pace makers do a great job of helping in london
51 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 2:03:59 PACE
52 Edwin Kiptoo KEN - PACE
53 Richard Sigei KEN - PACE
54 Fernando Cabada USA 2:11:53 PACE
55 Milton Rotich KEN 2:08:55 PACE
56 Linus Maiyo KEN 2:11:34 PACE
57 Cyprian Kotut KEN - PACE
Cabada is pacing Vail, Haile will be pacing the lead pack...and only 5 other pacers which will be split between the lead, Mo Farah, and others??
Cabada is going to lose his head, go out with the front pack and screw up everybody's pacing. America #1!
The "Who?" thing is getting a little old. Get some new material.F**ktard.
dril wrote:
Who?
The WR is going down. MF 2:02.59.
Renato Canova wrote:
1) All the best athletes this year are in very good shape, while last year Kenyans were out of shape because there were two and half months of continue rain, not allowing athletes to have a good training.
2) The pace will be very fast, but with Haile pacing, very even, too. This means that 61:45 can have a cost not very high. Under the point of view of how much fuel athletes use for running, it's very much more important to analyze HOW a time comes, than the time itself.
For example, when we go for the final test of lactate, using 6 x 2000m with less than one minute recovery, at increasing speed (6'15" / 6'10" / 6'05" / 6' / 5'55" / 5'50"), if the pace for every test is totally even (in this case we use acustic rabbits, with a bip every 25 meters at the requested speed) we have a real picture of the situation, but if we do the same test without acustic rabbit, and there is some mistake in the ditribution (for example, 6' must be 5 times 72" : if the first lap is 69", and after we have 3 laps in 74", and after we have again the last lap in 69"), the final time is the same, but the level of lactate is significantly higher.
3) In the past, we had some crazy split (the year of Sammy Wanjiru), but with the first 10 km really too fast, situation I don't think we can see again with Haile in front.
4) With this speed, a normal leading Group can be composed in the following way : Wilson Kipsang, Geoffrey Mutai, Emmanuel Mutai, Stanley Biwott, Stephen Kiprotich (he wants to go with the leaders), Tsegaye Kebede, Mekonnen Tsegaye (but he's with the leaders only for growing in experience).
5) May be very difficult to respect the real difference of speed between first and second Group. If at the end of the first half we want 30" of gap between the two groups, inside the race this means about 8 meters of difference every km, and normally this never happens. Knowing the personal tension every pacer has, the second Group has only two chances : a) going together with the first (in this case also Mo and Samuel Tsegay run under 62') or b) trying from the beginning to have more gap (in this case 62:15 can become closer 63:00).
6) Due to this high speed, at even pace, I think nobody wants (or can) try to create a sudden gap running 2-3 km at crazy speed (like Wilson did in the past). I think more logic that, after 30 km, front runners such as Geoffrey (remember Boston 2011...), Wilson, Tsegaye Kebede and Emmanuel Mutai start to push progressively their speed. In my opinion, this is the last Group of runners staying together, with some chance for Stanley Biwott till 5 km from the end.
7) Weather conditions seem to be very much better than last year. For those reason, I think possible to see 2-3 athletes under 2:04 at the end of the race.
8) If the race can follow this development, I think Mo can't have any chance for going on the podium. His realistic goal is to destroy the National record. And, of course, running 10000m in the next WCh 2015 and OG 2016 can remain his priority, because of sure he doesn't look at the Marathon when there are titles to win.
Read more:
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=5735714&page=1#ixzz2yfAlBxc1vdawg wrote:
like that big test run the elites in eldoret do before marathons....is Wilson Kipsang's record on that 40km run still alive?
I was just thinking about the unpredictability of the London Marathon outcome, and remembered, if there's one stable of athletes you don't want to bet against, at this point in contemporary running times, I believe it would be Renato Canova associated athletes. Trained well, adequately prepared and contending...
Canova has given his thoughts here:http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=5735714&page=1#5735936
Canova wrote:
1) All the best athletes this year are in very good shape, while last year Kenyans were out of shape because there were two and half months of continue rain, not allowing athletes to have a good training.
2) The pace will be very fast, but with Haile pacing, very even, too. This means that 61:45 can have a cost not very high. Under the point of view of how much fuel athletes use for running, it's very much more important to analyze HOW a time comes, than the time itself.
For example, when we go for the final test of lactate, using 6 x 2000m with less than one minute recovery, at increasing speed (6'15" / 6'10" / 6'05" / 6' / 5'55" / 5'50"), if the pace for every test is totally even (in this case we use acustic rabbits, with a bip every 25 meters at the requested speed) we have a real picture of the situation, but if we do the same test without acustic rabbit, and there is some mistake in the ditribution (for example, 6' must be 5 times 72" : if the first lap is 69", and after we have 3 laps in 74", and after we have again the last lap in 69"), the final time is the same, but the level of lactate is significantly higher.
3) In the past, we had some crazy split (the year of Sammy Wanjiru), but with the first 10 km really too fast, situation I don't think we can see again with Haile in front.
4) With this speed, a normal leading Group can be composed in the following way : Wilson Kipsang, Geoffrey Mutai, Emmanuel Mutai, Stanley Biwott, Stephen Kiprotich (he wants to go with the leaders), Tsegaye Kebede, Mekonnen Tsegaye (but he's with the leaders only for growing in experience).
5) May be very difficult to respect the real difference of speed between first and second Group. If at the end of the first half we want 30" of gap between the two groups, inside the race this means about 8 meters of difference every km, and normally this never happens. Knowing the personal tension every pacer has, the second Group has only two chances : a) going together with the first (in this case also Mo and Samuel Tsegay run under 62') or b) trying from the beginning to have more gap (in this case 62:15 can become closer 63:00).
6) Due to this high speed, at even pace, I think nobody wants (or can) try to create a sudden gap running 2-3 km at crazy speed (like Wilson did in the past). I think more logic that, after 30 km, front runners such as Geoffrey (remember Boston 2011...), Wilson, Tsegaye Kebede and Emmanuel Mutai start to push progressively their speed. In my opinion, this is the last Group of runners staying together, with some chance for Stanley Biwott till 5 km from the end.
7) Weather conditions seem to be very much better than last year. For those reason, I think possible to see 2-3 athletes under 2:04 at the end of the race.
8) If the race can follow this development, I think Mo can't have any chance for going on the podium. His realistic goal is to destroy the National record. And, of course, running 10000m in the next WCh 2015 and OG 2016 can remain his priority, because of sure he doesn't look at the Marathon when there are titles to win.
Get a new line wrote:
F**ktard.
who?
vdawg wrote:
Renato tends to give insight after big races; i'm trying to get a better idea of what kind of shape the runners are in before the race.
you can't always trust the athletes when they claim to be in good shape, but having an idea of the workouts they have done leading up will give a better idea and help handicap the field.
He waits to see who wins, and then claims to have been the mastermind behind the success.
He still claims Mo Farah's success as his own.
Kipketer_Pumpkin_Eater wrote:
I was just thinking about the unpredictability of the London Marathon outcome, and remembered, if there's one stable of athletes you don't want to bet against, at this point in contemporary running times, I believe it would be Renato Canova associated athletes. Trained well, adequately prepared and contending...
I would bet one of them to win, but not to set the WR on Sunday in London, and I'd be willing to bet none of them go sub-2:04 or even break the CR, simply because there is a "stable" of them. It makes us think that with so many of them in one race that are capable of such speed that something huge might happen tomorrow, but actually the opposite is what happens. With so many of them all in one race they end up competing against one another instead of running a time trial for a fast time.
I would be willing to bet no one runs faster than KB's Paris time tomorrow even though the course is flatter. KB got to run a time trial which won't happen tomorrow in London. The London organizers want a fast time, but first and foremost the athletes want the victory regardless of the time. All it takes is for one of the elites to get a little impatient and a little too aggressive and all the others have to make a quick decision on the spot whether to go with the surge or to hold off, and then the CR and the WR is out the window.
trollism wrote:He waits to see who wins, and then claims to have been the mastermind behind the success
nonsense
he's already indicated he thinks 2 or 3 guys will go 2"03+
that is a bold prediction & he does offer advise to wilson
He still claims Mo Farah's success as his own.
utter drivel
he has never claimed any such thing
Well, Canova says Kiprotich is going out with Haile and Bedford told LRC he is going with Mo in 62:15. What is true?
Kipsang is so smooth. he's the one guy whose words you can trust about where his fitness level is...really screwed himself at London 2012, but he's bounced back magnificently
good to see you back!! Could Kipsang have gone 2:02 today with perfect pacing and perfect weather?
great interview with Kipsang on kenyan TV https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUDW28tIwfg