I've run sub 15 5k with low mileage

7 years of running 50-60 miles a week with 1.5 years of high mileage mean that you got a heck of a lot of practice prior to this new training cycle.

Likely you wouldn't have hit this time without all the mileage work beforehand.

perhaps it was this consistent aerobic conditioning of running those 100 mile weeks that led you to your new PR you just don't realize it because it took so long to show in your results.

Thank you for this.

Can you elaborate on your paces for you tempos, repeats, and intervals relative to your 5k and 3k times? What pace are you running on your easy days?

During your 100mpw phase, you probably could've run sub-2:35 marathon. Today, more like 2:42.

This is a good reminder that high mileage isn't always the necessary step to PR.

I just think of Roger Bannister breaking the 4 minute mile. He did only 28 mpw in winter, and could do a 14:30 5K on the track.

Although, there are outliers in every sport. It's probably better to try the tried and tested training methods before individualizing training to one's particular strengths and weaknesses. There should always be an emphasis on reviewing individual training to see what's working and what isn't.

Good for you. I know guys that ran sub 14 off low mileage,

and there's probably some one who is genetically gifted

enough to run sub 13 off low mileage.

If you run mileage it's periodized.

Good read. I'm a fellow low mileage runner getting back into it after a long time off. I was 4:00, 9:12, 15:36 XC in HS off of just over 35 mpw average (not including junk/barefoot cool down jogs after workouts). Intervals were fast, 27/39/58 and less for 200/300/400. All runs were at or below 6:00/mile, including 7-8 mile "long" run. More like tempo.

I'm 26, and I feel significantly stronger than at 18-19. Been back at it for about a year. Started slow with a bit more mileage at first. Now transitioning to 40 mpw with high intensity. Also doing a long run, from 70 minutes in early winter now to 100 minutes never slower than 7:00 pace and usually building. Less short intervals, more emphasis on fartleks and tempos due to not really being able to race anything less than 5k on the road.

I am also a low-mileage athlete. However, my intensity isn't as high as yours. When I was in PR shape (4:05 mile) I would run 5-6 times a week with 3 workouts a week (2 if there was a race). Only 1 workout was really hard. Something like 8x400m at mile race pace with 2min rest. The other ones were easier and more endurance based such as 10-15x400m in 5K pace with 100 fast jog rest. My easy runs I would do at 8:00min/mile pace but I would do a lot of 40-80m strides randomly within them.

I think that every individual responds differently to training. People have to just find out what works for them. This definitely worked best for me, but it might not for others. I agree that there are too many people who focus solely on miles (especially the magic 100mpw), who would be better off running less with a higher intensity.

Thanks to everyone who's sharing their opinions on this. Hope it might help someone.

blissful punches wrote:

During your 100mpw phase, you probably could've run sub-2:35 marathon. Today, more like 2:42.

I agree that I am probably slower for the marathon. I've never done one but I got faster for the 10k recently. The 35 miles per week I am running right now should be not enough for a 2:35 marathon, but I guess that If I go up to 50-60 again I will be faster than when I was running 90-110.

jman1 wrote:

Can you elaborate on your paces for you tempos, repeats, and intervals relative to your 5k and 3k times? What pace are you running on your easy days?

Sure.

Monday I do these speed workouts. It could be 12 x 400, 20 x 200, 7 x 600 with short recovery (like 45s) or it could be faster when I am closer to the race, like 5 x 400, 10 x 200 or 3 x 600 with longer recover (up to 2 min).

One recent workout I've done was 6 x 400 with 2min recovery between 62-64.

I can also run a 12 x 400 with 45 recovery in like 69.

Tuesday I run easy. it depends of how tired I am from monday exercise. The fastest I've run for this was 6.30 and the slowest close to 8. I really go the way I am feeling it.

Wednesday: here i do tempos but my approach is a bit different. When running between 1-1.5 miles I try to run a bit faster than my goal time. So for example if I run 1 mile tempo, I run about 4.45 (warm up/cool down before and after). two miles I try to be close to my 5k pace, but it normally goes a bit slower. And it keeps going slower for longer distances. This exercise has to be hard, but not exhaustive.

Thursday: these are my longer intervals. I was doing the intervals between 4.45-4.50 pace.

friday: this is the day I feel sore the most, so I either rest, or run very easy 5 miles. It's a jog actually. I am sure I go over 8:00 min/pace.

saturday: the long run I go about 6:30 pace. It could be a bis faster, like close to 6:00 if I am feeling ok, or up to 7:00 if i am feeling tired. I'd say 6:30 average.

my splits for the race:

i started with a 70 lap, then slowed a bit to 72. I kept that until the 3k mark that I've passed in 9:02.

My 2 miles should have gone in about 9:40. Then I remember my next two laps were a low 70.

The last 1000m i was feeling tired but still had something. I've run about 2:55 for the last two and a half laps, with my last 400m in 68..

Would you consider yourself a speed oriented guy or a strength guy? I have you time trialed a 1500 or an 800? Also, whats your 3k pr?-And where did you get it? Do you enter ncaa meets unattached?

Thanks for your anecdote.

gfjfgjhertr wrote:

perhaps it was this consistent aerobic conditioning of running those 100 mile weeks that led you to your new PR you just don't realize it because it took so long to show in your results.

This is the right answer. He was aerobically undertrained before the 100 MPW stint. However, 40 MPW is pretty low. He should bring that back up to around 70 and then he'll be able to lower the PR even more.

My aim for this season is to break 15:00. I run for 4 years now and 52 miles was my max.

I think you can run fast of low mileage.

MarathonMind wrote:

gfjfgjhertr wrote:

perhaps it was this consistent aerobic conditioning of running those 100 mile weeks that led you to your new PR you just don't realize it because it took so long to show in your results.

This is the right answer. He was aerobically undertrained before the 100 MPW stint.

This is certainly a possibility.

I think the OP has jumped to some conclusions. His conclusion is one of many possibilities, but certainly not the only. Or, even the most likely.

Just off the top of my head:

1) He did high mileage. Then, dropped down to lower mileage/high intensity. He concludes the key was the low mileage and the high mileage was a mistake and not necessary. How many athletes make the same faulty conclusion?

2) I would be very curious the results if the OP maintains his low 40 MPW for the next 2 years. Will he continue to improve? Or, will his aerobic base erode, and limit his improvement?

3) It seems to me the jump to 100mpw might have been too aggressive. Running up to 60mpw for 4'ish years. Then, suddenly JUMP up to 100mpw for the next 1.5 years. Feel tired, and conclude that 100mpw is a bad idea. Well, maybe it was. So suddenly and without progression. (On the other hand, maybe it worked just fine and set up the sub 15).

What if OP had actually done a more patient progression to 100mpw? Bumped to 70 mpw for 6 months, then 80 mpw for 6 months, then 90 mpw for 6 months, and THEN 100 mpw? Perhaps he would think differently. Or, taken even longer between jumps if necessary.

I certainly don't think this aggressive jump is a good case study to declare high mileage doesn't work. The attempt was flawed, and could have been improved with a good coach or more patient application.

I run 7 miles a day 5 days a week.

I have great success.

2 days running 1 day off, 3 days running 1 day off, repeat.

I am 45 years young.

I am still under 16 min for 5k.

I am on board with "A little twang".

Were you too aggressive moving to the 100mpw to begin with? Did you have the prior athletic/running history to comfortably run that milage with quality?

Report back to us in two years after only running 40mpw. My guess is you will be back to mid-15min 5k.

Too many assumptions without truly understanding your past training.

The guys that break 15 minutes with 30-40mpw are huge outliers. If you told me 70-80mpw with a lot of quality and speed, I'd be less skeptical.