Bernard Lagat = Regina Jacobs???

Phillthy Running wrote:I can’t be the only one skeptical of a 39 year old who is blowing the doors off of the competition? Can I?

No, I'm with you. I've always found Lagat to be suspect, from his motives for becoming a U.S. citizen to his ongoing success at an advanced age to everything in between. Lagat is as dirty as Lance Armstrong; he just avoids widespread scrutiny because - unlike Armstrong - Lagat isn't a jacka$$ to people.

I think what's really telling is that his speed is still world class. Geb was still running pretty good times at 39, but his speed wasn't anything near what Lagat's is currently. A 4:54 2000!? Based off that, he's still got to be able to run close to 3:51 for a mile.

jkljoi wrote:

I think what's really telling is that his speed is still world class. Geb was still running pretty good times at 39, but his speed wasn't anything near what Lagat's is currently. A 4:54 2000!? Based off that, he's still got to be able to run close to 3:51 for a mile.

well he had more speed than geb

but he gets a pass for being a nice guy

just sayin wrote:

jkljoi wrote:

I think what's really telling is that his speed is still world class. Geb was still running pretty good times at 39, but his speed wasn't anything near what Lagat's is currently. A 4:54 2000!? Based off that, he's still got to be able to run close to 3:51 for a mile.

well he had more speed than geb

but he gets a pass for being a nice guy

Everybody always said Tyson Gay was such a nice guy, and look what happened.

idiot alert wrote:

Everybody always said Tyson Gay was such a nice guy, and look what happened.

ya...someone 'let him down'

terrible when that happens

and he got caught first time out too..

There may be issues with Lagat, but one of the bigger issues with Regina was that she was getting faster than she had ever been. This can't be said for Kip.

Jacobs had some "fallow" years and then got better. That is not the arc of Lagat's career; he has not gotten faster after 35 (arcane indoor records notwitshtanding). He's just held on

I was speaking to an insider and she said that Lagat is one of the untouchables- despite being a convicted doper he will not be going down. Words is he has also failed a number of other drug tests that have been covered up.

If Lagat goes down it will only be through an investigation like the one against Lance.

I think his image is one of the reasons he never really gets questioned, and everyone ignores the fact he needed adult braces: http://www.supersmilz.com/orthodontic-specialists-of-tucson/our-blog.asp

CyndiLoper wrote:

There may be issues with Lagat, but one of the bigger issues with Regina was that she was getting faster than she had ever been. This can't be said for Kip.

Well, he did run his 2-mile PR last year; and his 4:54 just a few weeks ago; and ran his fastest 5k in 2011 at the age of 36.

In any case, doping or not, you're not going to get much faster than 3:47 and 3:26 at the age of 39.

Basically because there is no reason to suspect Lagat. It wouldn't be a "tough" question, given that there are no real implicating circumstances. It would actually be an awkward question, in a press or interview situation in a room filled with knowledgeable people. No athlete or journalist has voiced the least suspicion about Lagat -- only anonymous forum hoppers.

Lagat's career is credible. He was a very fast miler who lost some speed as he got older, so he moved up to longer distances. It's rare that careers last as long, but if they do, that's the normal pattern -- you move up in distance when you start to lose speed.

Regina Jacobs career was dying, and then it was reborn, better than ever, in her 30's -- something incredible.

Lagat's alleged "positive" A-sample was also reversed in a way that was highly credible. B-sample simply didn't match the A-sample. Both samples were cooked. Closer re-inspection showed the A-sample didn't match the reference bands of synthetic EPO either. Open and shut case. Lasted about 30 days. No controversy among the different organizations.

Who is Lagat's competition in the US at 3000m? Henry Rono ran 7:32 in 1978. Outside Lagat, only Bob Kennedy and Rupp have ever run faster. Rupp is a 10K specialist. Even with his improved speed, it's not credible to expect Rupp to beat Lagat in a final 200m kick.

Many people where braces as adults. I wore braces at age 24. It was a question of my parents having no money, so I had to wait until I did. I did not take banned PEDs. You think Lagat's family could have sent him to an orthodontist as a teenager?

DId I say "where"? Many people "wear" braces as adults. To you Brits, I mean the metal thing that straightens teeth, not the elastic things that hold up your trousers.

May or may not be dirty, but if he actually was a clean 3:26 guy then nothing he still does adds any suspicion. He can't compete at the 1500 anymore - unlike what Jacobs was doing, and the only even he really is a threat in anymore is the 3000 which arguably was always his best event had he focused on it. Setting prs because you are running events that you really never put much time into before is not incriminating in anyway.

Phillthy Running wrote:

How is it everyone thought (and correctly so) that Regina Jacobs was doping when she was still competing on the world stage while in her late 30's, yet no one really seems to question Bernard Lagat?

The guy most certainly does NOT pass my sniff test. I share your skepticism.

I sincerely feel pity for those that don't understand basic chemistry and the ins and outs of the IAAF and litigation.

EPO degrades VERY quickly, any B sample that would've been tested at a later date would likely not have the EPO traces in the urine sample.

Synthetic EPO? Improper storage? What a joke and what a stretch. EPO isn't magically going to appear in a urine sample.

Lagat is a great guy, don't get me wrong. He seems like quite the family guy....husband...dad...whatever but not everyone that dopes is a Marion Jones (false positive EPO too) or the Ben Johnsons....etc

When you get past the realization that nearly everyone dopes at this level AND THAT HE HAS A POSITIVE TEST IN HIS CAREER....it's much easier to accept.

Lagat, great man, but a doper. This isn't even speculation. I love the LONG winded responses by ardent fans trying to rationalize why this isn't so. You sound like his sailor swearing agent James Templeton when you do.

If Kenya Athletics hadn't released the result early, then we wouldn't even be here, Lagat would've been a mediocre athlete at best on the international circuit.

Does it even phase any of you that he has like 8-11 siblings that were all runners but never amounted to what he has done. Think about that. Didn't his younger sister go to FSU but hasn't even broken 2:01 or 4:08? Then the Cheseret guy fizzled out and I believe he's already over 30 years old.

Huh? Do you mean self pity. Because you clearly don't understand. There was no litigation.How fast does EPO degrade? VERY quickly? Lance's 1999 samples were retested 5 years later, finding synthetic EPO fully intact. Surely a few weeks is not too long.Here's what EPO test results look like (for you, scroll down to the picture -- endogenous means normal):http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/document/td2007epo_en.pdfHere you can see it's not a question of the mere presence of EPO, a substance that occurs naturally, but the location of the bands, which tell you if the EPO is natural or synthetic. In Lagat's case, according to the published report, neither the A sample, nor the B sample results could be mapped to each other, nor could they be matched to synthetic EPO.But the simplest reason for believing his innocence, is that no one with a name suspects Lagat.

A better comparison to Jacobs would be Treniere Moser

thank you for this, it needed to be said!

Lagat is the Obama of Track and Field!