By the end(at Duke), if I saw one more poster for an on-campus frat party with a “pimps and hoes”, I would lose my mind.

Welcome to America.

Duke is gross

The patriarchy pervades all parts of society, even the supposed cerebral realms.

I've been away from college for 25 years, but still...does this stuff really happen? Maybe she was speaking metaphorically and not literally.

I just can't believe that in the hypersensitive politically correct atmosphere of a campus people would put up posters like that.

Unless I am proven wrong.

Unfortunately, I was speaking literally. Yes, it seems unfathomable that in 2006-2011 (my years at Duke) these types of misogynistic and derogatory messages (and images, believe it or not) were not only permissable but sadly acceptable to a frustrating degree. Things were changing for the better by the end of my time at Duke, and I hope that it has continued to improve in the last 2 years.

typical liberal mentality. All communication - even frat party flyers - must be censored so as to be judged 'tolerant' by the PC police - which is ironically the height of intolerance..

Anyone who actually believes Duke isn't a poster child for political correctness run amok is fooling themselves.

So far the examples for Duke being 'misogynistic'(gasp!) amount to some flyers posted about frat parties. Wow.

College used to graduate mature adults, ready to contribute to society. Now we have whiny, self centered children crying about every perceived slight imaginable.

Ironic that Duke is picked on - the site of the embarrassingly botched Duke Lacrosse team fiasco a few years back, where our society wrongly convicted some Duke athletes because of an all consuming fear of not being PC or 'tolerant' enough..

Kate VB wrote:

Unfortunately, I was speaking literally. Yes, it seems unfathomable that in 2006-2011 (my years at Duke) these types of misogynistic and derogatory messages (and images, believe it or not) were not only permissable but sadly acceptable to a frustrating degree. Things were changing for the better by the end of my time at Duke, and I hope that it has continued to improve in the last 2 years.

Hi Kate -

ok...how about this - put a number on it. Did you, in four years, see three posters with that kind of message? Or was it a weekly sort of thing? Point is, it can be easy to remember a few outliers.

Thanks for sharing your opinions, Jeffrey...although I think its unfortunate that you chose such an agressive tone with which to voice your thoughts. The point I was making in the interview was that what you consider to be just "some fliers posted about frat parties" were indicative of much more pervasive and constant gender inequality that affected both myself and many other young women on campus in very damaging ways. The rates of sexual abuse, rape and harrassment were upsettingly high on campus during my years there and these fliers and parties--and the acceptance of them by students and administrators--reflect the view that many (but certainly not all) men have of women, and this can lead to these very real and terrible acts of sexual violence.

Thanks to a combination of my experiences (good and bad) at Duke and my other life experiences, I am proud to say that I "a mature adult, ready to contribute to society", as evidenced by my involvement and work in many of my communities at local and national levels. I appreciate your input, Jeffrey, I just think that you are making blanket judgements about myself and all "liberals" without knowing me personally, knowing Duke intimately (I'm assuming...were you a student there?) or truly considering the consequences of the capus culture I'm describing.

jeffrey d. boomhauer wrote:

typical liberal mentality. All communication - even frat party flyers - must be censored so as to be judged 'tolerant' by the PC police - which is ironically the height of intolerance..

No.

The First Amendment and subsequent rulings are quite clear on the subject. You can say whatever you like, short of endangering lives or personal slander/libel, and certain exceptions in the case of obscenities and commercial speech. Liberals generally aren't the forces trying to censor media or protests, such as flag burning. Do as you like. It's your right.

That said, Duke is a private university and they have a fair amount of leeway when it comes to what is displayed on their property (you respect private property rights, don't you?). If they don't want their institution associated with "Pimps and Ho" parties, then they, as a private entity, probably have the right to regulate against such advertisements on their premises.

That's my liberal view on the subject.

Then your different from most liberals in this regard. Most want things they do not agree with to be censored.

Kate and the Brojos:

Thank you for posting, and (Kate) for your quote. It takes guts to raise these issues.

(My remarks, not Kate's): Unfortunately, Duke a couple of years ago is not unique. I spend a fair amount of time on college and graduate school campuses b/c I teach. I also spend a fair amount of time on Wall Street/ in the financial services area b/c of my field.

The posters that you describe are not limited to one school . . . or even school. I've seen similar stuff in email, flyers, etc. at school, in the workplace, and on these message boards, etc. To be clear, I am not talking about the random who is hot stuff -- whatever. I think some guys are hot, and I've said so on occasion :-). I am talking about the "bitches and hoes" stuff, references to sexual violence, etc.

This is NOT to say that every student at Duke (or anywhere, for that matter) is a sexist jerk. I also am not saying that I would censor this material, as I am a dedicated First Amendment advocate. That said, I don't understand WHY people post this stuff. I can't imagine that the posters would say this material to their mothers, wives, girlfriends, sisters. I can't imagine that the posters would want someone to say these things to their mothers, wives, girlfriends, sisters. If you would not call someone you love these names -- or want someone you love to be called these names -- why do it? What message are you sending to the people that you love? What message are you sending to the boys and men who will date and marry your sisters, friends, etc. I know, in writing this, that many will criticize this post. TO BE CLEAR, I don't know the original poster, so don't blame her for my decision to write in. I simply think that life -- and these boards -- would be better if people thought for a few seconds before resorting to hateful speech about women when promoting parties -- or expressing their opinions.

anapaix wrote:

Then your different from most liberals in this regard. Most want things they do not agree with to be censored.

There's a difference between not liking something, wishing that something wasn't shown/displayed, and wanting the government to force its removal. That's the difference between urging a boycott of Chick-fli-a, because you don't want to support a business headed by people who don't support gay rights, and requesting that government forces shut down Chick-fli-a or forcibly stop its ignorant leadership from making such statements.

liberal

ˈlɪb(ə)r(ə)l/Submit

adjective

1. willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas.

"liberal views towards divorce"[quote]anapaix wrote:

I don't understand how anyone can counter what she is saying. We all know it's true; not just at Duke, but most Universities across the US. Frat life is huge and widely encouraged to "enhance" your college experience. When you think of frats, the main things that come to mind are drinking beer and hooking up with women; objectifying and sexualising women. This is the issue Kate is talking about, not the fact that these posters were up around the campus. She's talking about what happened on the evening of the date printed on the poster. Men walking around in suites being "CEO's" - people in charge - while women were expected to show up in next to nothing and be their "Office Hoes".

This is an issue in itself, that people can't look past the poster and see what it represents.

I just want to point out that it's not everyday that you see an elite runner like Katie post on Letsrun using his or her real name/identity. Agree or disagree, thanks Katie for being open with your opinion and discussing your experiences.

Outside of the Frat houses, and here on the message boards.

The first reply, and many after it, are great examples of the issues on University campus' and in everyday life that Kate is talking about.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=5509166

I don't know. Every time I'm on Duke's campus, the only people who really seem to be in your face is the LGBT group. Duke seems to cater to every minority group, LGBT, not to mention the majority of the courses have the "race, sex gender" theme.

Kate always loved attention. Always desperate to have people looking at her. Whether it was shaving her head, dying her hair some outrageous color, or displaying complete intolerance for any opinion other than her liberal worldview, this latest quote isn't surprising. She is your typical women's studies, man hating feminist.

jeffrey d. boomhauer wrote:

typical liberal mentality. All communication - even frat party flyers - must be censored so as to be judged 'tolerant' by the PC police - which is ironically the height of intolerance..

Anyone who actually believes Duke isn't a poster child for political correctness run amok is fooling themselves.

So far the examples for Duke being 'misogynistic'(gasp!) amount to some flyers posted about frat parties. Wow.

College used to graduate mature adults, ready to contribute to society. Now we have whiny, self centered children crying about every perceived slight imaginable.

Ironic that Duke is picked on - the site of the embarrassingly botched Duke Lacrosse team fiasco a few years back, where our society wrongly convicted some Duke athletes because of an all consuming fear of not being PC or 'tolerant' enough..

I find it rather sad that you appear to have invested yourself with the power to decide what people have the right to feel offended or threatened by.

Other than that, Jeff Wigand's reply was excellent

Frat Life wrote:

I don't know. Every time I'm on Duke's campus, the only people who really seem to be in your face is the LGBT group. Duke seems to cater to every minority group, LGBT, not to mention the majority of the courses have the "race, sex gender" theme.

Kate always loved attention. Always desperate to have people looking at her. Whether it was shaving her head, dying her hair some outrageous color, or displaying complete intolerance for any opinion other than her liberal worldview, this latest quote isn't surprising. She is your typical women's studies, man hating feminist.

At least she "manned" up and posted under her own name.

Kate VB wrote:

Unfortunately, I was speaking literally. Yes, it seems unfathomable that in 2006-2011 (my years at Duke) these types of misogynistic and derogatory messages (and images, believe it or not) were not only permissable but sadly acceptable to a frustrating degree. Things were changing for the better by the end of my time at Duke, and I hope that it has continued to improve in the last 2 years.

I agree that it's puzzling and worrying. But why do you suppose so many women participate in it?

Did you talk to fellow female students who went to these types of parties? Did they go grudgingly (like, "well of course I hate the idea of these sexist parties, but that's where the hot guys are"), or were they completely indoctrinated, do you think?

There was something similar to "frat culture" at my university in England. I didn't participate in it really, but usually assumed most women would rather be objectified by one of those alpha types. Maybe this assumption was false, but if not the question is perhaps where those female preferences came from.

Well, I'm rambling, but women have agency too, so what is their place in this kind of patriarchy?