high school 800m/1600m runner

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Are you working on speedwork? The 800m can be considered a "long sprint", and you need to be working on speed to see improvements in your time. Endurance is definitely a bigger key in the 800m, but you cannot overlook speed.

I would recommend 1 day of speed training per week right now if you're currently training. If you're not, train.

A day of speed training could be something such as: 4.25 Miles total

1 Mile Warm Up

6x200m - starting at 33 and droppng .5-1 second each rep. 2-3 minute break between each

5x400m - Starting at 1:10 and dropping 1 second each rep. 4 Minute break between each.

10x50m Strides, starting slow picking it up at the 25m mark. Work on perfect form. 5 second break between each.

1 Mile cooldown

As the season progresses, starting around February you should start 2 speed-work days per week until the season starts.

The workout is just a guideline. You don't have to follow it exactly and the times are just estimates. It should feel like a SPRINT. Something that is almost never truly practiced in XC.

Basically what I'm saying is start having sprint workouts.

are you a man-child?

Hill sprints, flat sprints. Look up Magness.

Thanks, I definitely plan on doing more speed work. I also intend on lifting weights a lot in the winter, which is more for injury prevention but I feel it would aid with my speed as well. Mileage has always been light, maybe 30-35 miles a week and I am currently in xc season right now (usually run around 16.10 on fairly hilly courses with uneven footing). I definitely feel I'm more track orientated, so I really want to have a good track season to finish off high school. Would weight training with plyometrics help? I've always been more of the just run type of guy but if it helps....

The advice above was sound. Don't think of it as speed work, think of it as sprint work. There is a difference. Speed work helps you close in the 5k on the track. Sprint work helps you run a fast 4/8. If you are splitting 53 in the 4x400, you would have to have crazy endurance to run sub 1:55. Most 800s in sub 1:55 are going to be going out in 55 for the first lap. You want to decrease the % of full effort that is your 800 pace. You have to do this by developing the ability to sprint.Set aside a day now and then to do 10x100 with 90 seconds rest or a speed ladder (60,60,80,80,100,100,80,80,60,60). This might not seem like much mileage, but this is the only way to develop that 4/800 sprint speed. You can't develop leg speed with strides at the end of an endurance day.

highschoolrunner999 wrote:

Thanks, I definitely plan on doing more speed work. I also intend on lifting weights a lot in the winter, which is more for injury prevention but I feel it would aid with my speed as well. Mileage has always been light, maybe 30-35 miles a week and I am currently in xc season right now (usually run around 16.10 on fairly hilly courses with uneven footing). I definitely feel I'm more track orientated, so I really want to have a good track season to finish off high school. Would weight training with plyometrics help? I've always been more of the just run type of guy but if it helps....

What runnerdnerd said is essentially right - you need to be well under 53 speed to run under 1.55.

I would recommend though finding a sprint coach nearby and working in with him/her once a week. Do the drills, strength, short sprints, resistance running (sled, short hills/steps) etc that the sprint squad do. Work on form too.

Tell the coach they have you once a week and you want them to improve your 100 time.

I disagree on all the advice that emphasizes sprinting. You said you only run 30-35 miles per week? You should put more miles in and include a 10-12 mile long run once per week. I'd try to run between 45-60 mpw. Of course build up slowly, you can't double your mileage overnight.

My best 400 was around 53 all through HS. My best 800 as soph/junior was 2:04 but then as a senior I ran 1:56 multiple times. Got down to 3:52 for 1500 as a senior which is about 4:10 for the mile.

highschoolrunner999 wrote:

Mileage has always been light, maybe 30-35 miles a week and I am currently in xc season right now (usually run around 16.10 on fairly hilly courses with uneven footing). I definitely feel I'm more track orientated, so I really want to have a good track season to finish off high school. Would weight training with plyometrics help? I've always been more of the just run type of guy but if it helps....

To follow up on my previous post encouraging you to ignore the sprinting advice (and going overboard on weight training, etc.)...

Stop it, you are not an 800 runner! With your 16:10 from XC your talent is obviously at a longer distance. You can be a 4:08 to 4:12 1600 runner. If focus on that you probably will run the 800 around 1:54-1:56 as your secondary event.

Yeah well during track last year I was doing around 20-25 miles a week since I was recovering from the injury. I have a really good trainer/PT so the weight work would actually be a lot for preventing future injury, but we are supposed to do a lot of plyometrics so I was thinking it would help me with my speed (split squat jumps and the like). He doesn't have a ton of runners but he's worked with a lot of all state athletes from sports such as basketball and soccer so I'm very confident he will keep me healthy. I actually do usually do a 9-10 mile once per week, but I don't do much more than 4-5 miles a day the other days. I definitely got up to 40 quite often during summer training. A lot of kids who are close or beat me out have better xc times AND some have better 800m times so I think I really need to improve my sprint ability to make myself a better miler and 800m runner. I actually do run the 800m as my second event, I am primarily a miler but I really want to do more than run a fast mile time. I also think improving my speed for the 800m will only help me run a faster mile since I usually pick off a lot of guys in front the last 200-300m. Thanks for the advice though, I'll up the mileage with caution.

Good luck. If you focus on sprinting all you will do is get injured. At best you might run 52 and remain a good but not great HS middle distance runner. The reason your improvement has been flat is because you are too lazy to put the mileage in. There is no other secret.

I mean it's not really laziness my coach has never believed in really high mileage training. Also that 53 400m split has been consistently after running the 800m, 1600m, or both in a dual meet (so maybe 15 minutes after i finish my race) so I may be capable of 52 already for all I know. I've never run a fresh 400m. If higher mileage is what I need to do, then I will absolutely do it but I need to talk things out with my coach. Much higher mileage honestly also sounds like an easy way to get injured, with no less risk than sprint work. From what I can see from all the people posting and my own research, you need a really good combination of speed and endurance to be a great miler/1500m runner. All the guys in my state running 4.12 or faster can also hit 51 seconds or faster for the 400m (they do it consistently in relay splits or when they are just dicking around at small dual meets), but most also run under 16 min for the 5k at some really tough courses. I feel like you need a balance to really achieve success, so the higher mileage definitely makes sense but I can also see the benefit of more speed to close races faster (I've always been the type of runner who likes to close fast). I'm definately more middle distance than distance (i run even in the 1600m with my team mate who kicks the crap out of me in the 3200m and xc). I have no doubt if he had more speed (54 second guy) he would be a much faster miler. Thanks for the advice, it's really helping to give me an idea to present to my coach to create a smart training plan.

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53 second 400m relay split? Kid you have no speed. That was the same 400 time I ran with a 2:04 800meter. The only thing you have is endurance.

LmfaoWOW wrote:

53 second 400m relay split? Kid you have no speed. That was the same 400 time I ran with a 2:04 800meter. The only thing you have is endurance.

You are f*cking idiot. A distance guy with 53 speed should be able to run 1:55-1:57 in the 800.

TNPride1976 wrote:

You are f*cking idiot. A distance guy with 53 speed should be able to run 1:55-1:57 in the 800.

Agreed and I raise you. A 53 second guy can run sub-4.

The advice I gave was in response to "I want to improve my 800 time".

That said, I actually 100% agree with you. highschoolrunner999 should probably focus more on the one mile, as that is where it seems he is golden. 4:20 as a junior is amazing, and with hard work over winter, it could be easily dropped further. I wouldn't be surprised if you went under 4:05 if HARD work is put in over winter.

I'm basing this off the fact that it looks like he ran 4:20 with not a ton of hard training. Only peaking at 35 miles per week.

I completely agree with other people. Go get the miles on. Miles, miles, miles. If you honestly dedicate yourself, you could accomplish BIG things.

Try to get your mileage up to 70-75 before the middle of January. Take your runs slow a you increase mileage. Then once you find a mileage you think will work, you can begin hard practices and mild speed training.

What I'm saying is don't worry about anything else right now besides upping the mileage, with mostly medium-slow pace runs. Once you get your mileage up higher, then you can start worrying about other things. Once you get to that point, get advice from your coach. Start TODAY, I'm not kidding, TODAY. Big things could be coming to you. O

I absolutely wish you the best of luck.

LmfaoWOW wrote:

53 second 400m relay split? Kid you have no speed. That was the same 400 time I ran with a 2:04 800meter. The only thing you have is endurance.

I agree with the other posters, a distance guy split 53 for the relay and ran 4:06, know your stuff.

200m repeats

100m repeats

Sometimes 400m repeats.

Keep your mileage "consistent" till you taper for the end of the season.