Thyroid drug cocktails = doping?

check this article

the real question is what 'natural', readily available, legal supplements can all us non-NOP guys take that will mimic AlSal's results - even on a lesser scale? Are there 'natural' thyroid supplements that don't appear to harm you and that aren't illegal?

A probably simplistic take on hormones: evolution has tuned everything perfectly in most individuals, any change in hormonal levels will have downsides, be them performance enhancing or not. Example: EPO will thicken your blood and increase the risk of cardiac issues.

If you look at it this way, legal or not, anything that looks like a hormone is a bad idea.

Since when are thyroid hormones indicators of overtraining? None of the research that I have been able to find has indicated that these hormones can serve as markers of overtraining syndrome (acute, severe/chronic, or otherwise). I understand that the research is extremely limited in this area, especially when it comes to observing the chronic overtraining effects. Even studies that attempted to study this only used a regime of a few months, I don't think that is enough.

However, in my experience these symptoms that the elites complain of when they are diagnosed with a "sluggish thyroid" are the symptoms of undereating and starvation. Now, training may obviously have a huge role in this - overtraining probably contributes significantly to the chronic calorie deficit that elicits these hypothyroid symptoms.

My question is - does anyone else think that Alberto strictly regulates these athletes' caloric intakes to maintain an optimal body weight? Then, when they begin to show the symptoms of starvation, they are put on a thyroid cocktail of drugs to maintain the lowest body weight of lean muscle mass? If one can reduce their weight as much as possible, relative VO2max will increase, but usually the tradeoff is that as you lose weight, you lose muscle mass as well and running economy decreases.

If these athletes can be as lean as possible without sacrificing muscle mass and running economy, performance will increase significantly. Anybody with more knowledge of the endocrine system have anything to contribute to these ideas?

Y'all are looking up the wrong alley with the thyroid "cocktails". It's not something that will boost performance beyond someone's baseline potential. Too much of it is horrible for an endurance athlete and it's a fine line.

If thyroid levels are dialed in a runner can perform more consistently, but it doesn't raise their ceiling. It's like taking iron, if you are low it will help you to supplement with it, but if you take too much it's toxic.

It's the Epo Stimulating Agents (ESAs), Hypoxia-Inducible Factors (HIFs), Peroxisome Proliferator-Activated Receptors (PPARs), etc. that are game changers.

and to outwork... wrote:

outworking = overworking

overworking -> needs special "supplements" to avoid physical breakdown

Not true, but good material for internet drug experts to spread BS about.

jono wrote: Not true, but good material for internet drug experts to spread BS about.

And of course, your line of BS is the final truth about drugs.

Dr. Evil wrote:

the real question is what 'natural', readily available, legal supplements can all us non-NOP guys take that will mimic AlSal's results - even on a lesser scale? Are there 'natural' thyroid supplements that don't appear to harm you and that aren't illegal?

One thing that does not mimic them but helps a good amount is beet juice. There are several studies that say that beet juice can help performance by 1 to 2%. That is 10 to 20 seconds on a 5k.

epo microdosing

passport doesn't even detect it

More Knowledge Of Endocrine... wrote:

If thyroid levels are dialed in a runner can perform more consistently, but it doesn't raise their ceiling.

yes, and it is a complete coinceidence that the ceilings of his two star pupils are 1. the most freakish range ever seen in an athlete. 2.the fastest white guy over 10K ever(by over twenty seconds!!!).

professor endocrine wrote:

So is this legal cheating? Wait, is that an oxymoron?

You can cheat on your spouse without doing anything illegal.

AlSal and his crew will have their day...when they are busted. There is a known inquiry taking place as we speak on their practice using "legal" methods.

What is really scary though is that Rupp, Farah, etc., are killing themselves in the long run. They may have success now, but how will they function when they are 45 or 50? It's no surprise Salazar has had heart attacks despite being in good shape...

I would say the advantage to PEDs is that they allow you to train harder and more frequently. So yes a person is limited by their baseline potential, but their baseline is no longer the same as before when they are able to train HARD damn near every day. I could take EPO for a year and not run for that same year and guess what, I'd be a slow fat-ass. I would have to take EPO and bust my balls while on it to actually see results. Drugs aren't the magic potion to awesome, they just allow you to surpass the normal limits of training.

Isn't Dr. Brown on Runner's World's scientific advisory board?

Good press we got covering this sport, I tell you.

http://drjeffbrown.com/about

ive got some Gall wrote:

yes, and it is a complete coinceidence that the ceilings of his two star pupils are 1. the most freakish range ever seen in an athlete. 2.the fastest white guy over 10K ever(by over twenty seconds!!!).

maybe you misinterpreted what i was saying.

i have no idea if anyone, including Mo and Rupp, are cheating or not. my point is that people are making a bigger deal out of thryoid levels than they should. it's not a game changer. the game changers are not being talked about much, and so many undetectable variants can be made by chemistry grad students that it's just silly to be going on and on about thyroid meds.

i think Rupp's 10 PR is 11 seconds faster than Solinsky's.

i will say that mo looks the part, being exceptionally lean and with a good stride, whereas Rupp is very lean, but somehow has chubby cheeks and a back-kick reminiscent of Wang Junxia.

Is there more money in making the drugs and doing a great job masking them or catching the cheats?

I think it was Deep Throat who said to follow the money.

Same thing here. Same thing everywhere It's all fixed.

More Knowledge Of Endocrine... wrote:

Rupp is very lean, but somehow has chubby cheeks

Elevated cortisol.

That's exactly what I think is happening. Training while under-eating is known to cause thyroid issues; take a look at some of the elites who've been diagnosed hypothyroid. Look at Hall, especially in the past few years. It may be that Kenyan runners are naturally able to sustain a lower bodyweight, so to compete at the 10k/marathon, caucasians have to get unsustainably light. This eventually screws up their thyroid function. Then they need to go on thyroid-replacement treatments to be able to race.

If you are taking drugs that are not for a medical condition in an attempt to increase performance, you are cheating.