Hardloper wrote:
You clearly know nothing about 99.999% of professional/Olympic athletes.
Tell us again how the greatest runners of all time don't/didn't stretch (even though they do/did).
Hardloper wrote:
You clearly know nothing about 99.999% of professional/Olympic athletes.
Tell us again how the greatest runners of all time don't/didn't stretch (even though they do/did).
Hardloper wrote:
You clearly know nothing about 99.999% of professional/Olympic athletes.
Ah but you do, right?
You said: "Even though I always hate their opinions on distance spectating, Bad Wigins and coach d are 100% correct here. The majority of the greatest runners of all-time, past and present, don't stretch."
And you conveniently ignored the links I posted...
Abel Kirui -
http://www.letsrun.com/photos/2012/dayinlife/images/IAAF%20DIL%20Kenya%20120204%20Abel%20Kirui%20-%20Stretching%20after%20training%20.JPGHaile Gebrselassie -
http://botanicaethiopia.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/stretching-gsel-robin-hammond_g4ssport4557005357_e999a1b278.jpgKenenisa Bekele -
http://blogs.afp.com/english/public/.000_Par7646035_m.jpgDavid Rudisha -
http://katamiwrites.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/david-rudisha-strectes-at-kasarani-stadium-davidf-ndolo.jpgI know that's a small sample but it's quite a significant one for 3 minutes of using Google.
Kennis Dimetto wrote:
Ah but you do, right?
You said: "Even though I always hate their opinions on distance spectating, Bad Wigins and coach d are 100% correct here. The majority of the greatest runners of all-time, past and present, don't stretch."
And you conveniently ignored the links I posted...
Abel Kirui -
http://www.letsrun.com/photos/2012/dayinlife/images/IAAF%20DIL%20Kenya%20120204%20Abel%20Kirui%20-%20Stretching%20after%20training%20.JPGHaile Gebrselassie -
http://botanicaethiopia.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/stretching-gsel-robin-hammond_g4ssport4557005357_e999a1b278.jpgKenenisa Bekele -
http://blogs.afp.com/english/public/.000_Par7646035_m.jpgDavid Rudisha -
http://katamiwrites.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/david-rudisha-strectes-at-kasarani-stadium-davidf-ndolo.jpgI know that's a small sample but it's quite a significant one for 3 minutes of using Google.
He conveniently ignores a lot of stats posted in this thread that contradict what he claims...
I should add that anyone who thinks that the validity of an idea is determined by the number of people who partake in it share in the status of the 99.9% of coaches and athletes who are idiots.
trollololol wrote:
He conveniently ignores a lot of stats posted in this thread that contradict what he claims...
What stats have been posted? The only "stat" that contradicts my claims is the "stat" that 99.999% of athletes do stretches. Yes I "conveniently ignored" that one.
I should also add they anyone who thinks that a picture of a genetically gifted athlete doing something proves the validity of that practice shares in the status of the 99.9% of coaches and athletes and people who think that the validity if an idea is determined by the number of people who believe it, who are idiots.
Kennis Dimetto wrote:
I know that's a small sample but it's quite a significant one for 3 minutes of using Google.
I bet a majority of present-day world-class athletes who are told by photographers to stretch for the camera, I'll give you that.
When I said "past and present" I meant if you take into account the past and the present, a majority of all runners don't/didn't stretch. But even if you take just the present, I would still not be surprised one bit if most today don't stretch, and far fewer need to stretch.
So you present ONE former record holder who didn't stretch as "exhibit A" versus my 7+ CURRENT world record holders who do...
Well then, I have clearly been bested at this argument /sarcasm
trollololol wrote:
So you present ONE former record holder who didn't stretch as "exhibit A" versus my 7+ CURRENT world record holders who do...
Well then, I have clearly been bested at this argument /sarcasm
You need to reflect on the question of what constitutes valid evidence, because you haven't presented any.
Exercise Physiology Truth wrote:
You need to reflect on the question of what constitutes valid evidence, because you haven't presented any.
Yep. There are only anecdotes in this thread, no one has done a non-biased survey of elite athletes and no one will.
Steve Martin wrote:
Exercise Physiology Truth wrote:Active, passive, whatever; it's all superstition within no demonstrable benefit.
That statement is quite a stretch!
*groans*
Hardloper wrote:
Yep. There are only anecdotes in this thread, no one has done a non-biased survey of elite athletes and no one will.
I have trained with three sub 2:10 Marathon runners (one a sub 2:08), a 3:34 and a 3:30 1500m runners and I have seen countless Kenyans and Ethiopians stretching before races.
How about you?
You want evidence? Oh, sorry, I didn't conduct a non-biased survey while training and racing.
You are the one denying reality.
Hardloper wrote:
You need to reflect on the question of what constitutes valid evidence, because you haven't presented any.
Yep. There are only anecdotes in this thread, no one has done a non-biased survey of elite athletes and no one will.[/quote]
Try to rise out of the darkness. The practices of elite athletes do not determine the validity of training modalities. By far the most important factor in athletic performance is genetics, and elite athletes are elite because they have superior talent, not because they possess training secrets unbeknownst to the rest of humanity. Many of the world's most dominant athletes, including Usain Bolt and Kenenesia Bekele, Mo Farah and slmosr anyone else you can think of are involved in training practices that are nothing short outright idiotic. Stretching, "core" training, form drills, many forms of strength training, and a whole host of other things in widespread use by elite athletes are useless at best and more likely even counterproductive. Posting pictures of elites as "proof" of stretching's value is basically a loud confession of your complete and utter ignorance.
Kennis Dimetto wrote:
(some pictures of elites stretching)
They're stretching on dirt and mud roads, obviously for a few seconds. It serves the same purpose as stretching when you stand up or wake up, which is not to stretch your muscles but to inform your nervous system to prepare for higher range of motion in the near future. That's very different from a serious stretch routine, which tries to force things by working constantly against your nervous system instead of allowing it to adapt on its own.
One of those elites was doing a psoas stretch. For a few seconds, it's a shortcut to a couple miles of full warmup. But if a few seconds won't do it, the tension is probably an adaptation to other biomechanical problems. Those can be aggravated if you insist that your nervous system release the tension by doing a long stretch.
Without any underlying problems, you shouldn't have tight muscles or need more than a good warmup to loosen them. Stretching is a palliative.
liberals to the rescue! wrote:
Posting pictures of elites as "proof" of stretching's value is basically a loud confession of your complete and utter ignorance.
It was I who posted those pictures but you missed the point.
I was posting to show that they do stretch, not as "proof" of stretching's value.
Kennis Dimetto wrote:
]
I have trained with three sub 2:10 Marathon runners (one a sub 2:08), a 3:34 and a 3:30 1500m runners and I have seen countless Kenyans and Ethiopians stretching before races.
How about you?
You want evidence? Oh, sorry, I didn't conduct a non-biased survey while training and racing.
You are the one denying reality.
I've trained with/under three Olympians and another coach of Olympians in other disciplines too. None of them cared if we stretched, and the best of the bunch (a distance medalist) got mad if we wasted too much precious time and energy stretching. By and large the more one believes in stretching, the more of a hobby jogger that person is likely to be.
killarney wrote:
By and large the more one believes in stretching, the more of a hobby jogger that person is likely to be.
lol
*sigh*
Kennis Dimetto wrote:
killarney wrote:By and large the more one believes in stretching, the more of a hobby jogger that person is likely to be.
lol
*sigh*
Lololololol..........
Standard stretches before workout (after warm up) last ~12s each pose, not a few seconds, nor a minute or longer like those studies whose sole purpose seemed to be trying to find odds with static stretches by doing prolonged stretches. (But you know what, those who do hold long stretch poses in yoga or for gymnastics don't lose their elasticity!)
The time you stretch a rubber band aiming at a target before you shoot it out does little to destroy the elasticity of the band. But if you insist, you hold it long enough the rubber sure would lose some elasticity. That does NOT require many studies to prove it.
And your post about that your body will naturally have the flexibility as you're getting fit is completely incorrect. Fitness and flexibility are IRRELEVANT(whatever reasons you come up with are just speculation without proof). Just do the experiment yourself. Do a warm up jog of ~10-20min before your daily run. Then do some static stretches (count it, each pose lasts 10-15s). The go on to finish your run as usual OR run less. Report back in 2 weeks how much more you can stretch at that point compared to 2 weeks ago.
LOLOLOLOLOL wrote:
Report back in 2 weeks how much more you can stretch at that point compared to 2 weeks ago.
I don't get it, are you trying to improve running fitness, or trying to improve flexibility? Of course static stretching improves flexibility, the OP's point is flexibility doesn't help running and is thus a waste of time. Of course the "all stretching is a waste of time" was probably intentionally a blanket statement that he put out there just to get attention, not something anybody agrees with.