Will Mark Singer be the next Jonah Lehrer?
Will Mark Singer be the next Jonah Lehrer?
The fascinating story of Kip Litton continues.
People are still interested because the New Yorker article failed to get Kip to explain WHY and HOW he cheated.
Everyone understands that some back of the packers are going to cheat, cutting the course or whatever. But Kip got very little out of cheating. He was an accomplished runner in his own right. He gained even less by denying it. He probably put more time, money, and effort into cheating than it would have taken just to train more and run faster. The whole internet witch hunt is interesting, too. Some guy running slow marathons brought out some serious passion in people.
I'm sure Rojo was thinking, "Why the hell do people still care about this?" That's the answer. It's a good story that still has not had a full resolution.
Sorry, but you're slightly off base.
Witch hunt? Hardly. Look up the definition.
The only people looked at to this level before were Oscar Miranda and Rosie Ruiz.
The difference from then and now is the way we communicate. No internet back then with forums.
Was it a witch hunt when Will Cloney went after Miranda trying to figure out if he was telling the truth or not?
Yes, it was a different level as the guy finished around 2:16:21 as a 51 or 53 year old (?), but he only did it once. He took 22nd place and wasn't recorded at any of the checkpoints.
His "claimed" split at 1/2 way would have meant that he would have had to have run the 2nd half faster than the winner Bill Rodgers. His previous best was 2:40:40.
The shorter races that he ran were witnessed by many, but unfortunately he bit off more than he could chew as his marathon pace was faster than the pace he could run 5 miles. As evidence, Mr. Cloney offered him to run a 5 mile or 10k race at the same pace that he ran Boston but Mr. Miranda declined. You don't have to be a real runner to know why. Also, New York City offered a full expense paid trip that October, but he declined. Hmmm..
The comparison is because even when accused, Kip kept running races in other places, unknown to others. Then, because of the internet, unlike back then, people were/are able to search results AND photos:)
Suddenly races were being searched and things didn't add up. Missing checkpoints in many races. Conveniently blocking his number, but proudly displaying it near the end.
Starting near the back, but no one, not one runner comes forward to say yeah he passed me near 10 miles and I kept him in sight for quite awhile...I remember the guy. Instead, runners are shocked when they find him in front of them late in the race, confused how he got there when he wasn't there before.
The HOW, not difficult friend. There are only a few ways he could have done it. Nothing mysterious. The WHY, in my opinion, is simply ego. He could brag that he was faster than he actually was....again, that's simply opinion.
Do you truly understand how many races from a simply relay leg in Detroit, to 10ks, to 10 milers, to 1/2 marathons, to marathons that he may have not run the full distance? This was not over a one month period. It was spread like a wildfire to many states.
But...believe what you want.
Obviously another random pot stirrer who never met Kip. I know many people who have said that Kip passed him in a race. Just because you don't doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Your reason is even way off. He never brags about anything, especially running. He's a humble down to earth dude. Of course you wouldn't know this because you have never met him. This is another example where people will not believe you because you have so grossly mischaracterized him. You're digging a bigger hole for yourself.
Ok, now you need to get back on your meds.
I love these threads so much.
In regards to #1- The West Wyoming Marathon was one of three fake races, with fake participants and results. It was not a single incident. The Sandy Springs Half Marathon and Pine Hills 5k were both made up and have fake results and fake participants, although I do appreciate that Kip placed himself third in both. Nice to see him not getting too greedy with the wins.
Greg Meyer wrote:
rupp-certified saladbar wrote:1. MADE UP a race that didn't exist. BUILT A WEBSITE AND INSERTED FAKE RESULTS for this fake race.
1) previously addressed, but the race was not "made up". There was a web site to pre register, which a dozen or so did. There was a woman for on site reg and course maps. Just because no one else showed up doesn't mean Kip couldn't run. There is nothing illegal about being the only participant in a race. He should not have allowed his friend to add names to the results, but he copped to this right from the beginning. Despite being improper, this actually had absolutely no effect on anyone. If the names were not added, would all you conspiracy theorists still be critcising this race? This entire event affected nobody, and yet Kip was completely honest about it.
Hilarious, yes, let's contact the Race Director--Rich Rodriquez and find out how legitimate those other entries were. Some good reviews of the race here:
http://www.marathonguide.com/races/racedetails.cfm?MIDD=3777100703And some merchandise available here:
http://www.cafepress.com/westwyomingmarathonI read the same post as you and no I think that was facts. List the many people who said that. Obviously another friend of Kip's stirring the pot. You're mental dude, seriously, bordering on the fringe to no return. Good luck with that.
Whoever the person writing these responses in support of Kip has got to be jerking everyone's chain. He or she cannot be serious.
Who puts their racing shoes on the side of the road and leaves them unattended? When I've flown to marathons, my shoes are in my carry-on bag so there is no chance they're missing. The last thing I am going to do is drop them off and go for a jog. Someone needs to go back and look at the shoes he was wearing in the race...did he finish in racing flats or were they just a different pair of trainers?
Who changes shorts during a race? No one. Ever.
The guy is a cheat. It's really that simple.
although I do appreciate that Kip placed himself third in both. Nice to see him not getting too greedy with the wins.[/quote]
Now that was funny!
As I said well before your post, no one would leave their racing shoes on the side of the road, start the race with trainers and then stop to put them on. None if it is even close to being logical.
Of course there were no crowds and no one touched his precious racing shoes, right Trollist? It never happened but boneheads are just having a good time trying to defend him with nothing of substance. Carry on Mates!
Mr. Obvious wrote:
Greg Meyer wrote:[quote]rupp-certified saladbar wrote:
1. MADE UP a race that didn't exist. BUILT A WEBSITE AND INSERTED FAKE RESULTS for this fake race.
1) previously addressed, but the race was not "made up". There was a web site to pre register, which a dozen or so did. There was a woman for on site reg and course maps. Just because no one else showed up doesn't mean Kip couldn't run. There is nothing illegal about being the only participant in a race. He should not have allowed his friend to add names to the results, but he copped to this right from the beginning. Despite being improper, this actually had absolutely no effect on anyone. If the names were not added, would all you conspiracy theorists still be critcising this race? This entire event affected nobody, and yet Kip was completely honest about it.
This guy's got a good point. He can be the only entrant is a race and it is still legit. Why not? He's right, it really doesn't affect anybody. Why would anyone care what someone else did on their own watch? If I went out and ran 10 miles today, then told you I ran 20, or told you I ran 5, what difference does it make? No one really knows, and it doesn't matter at all. No one else's life will change one iota either way.
Mr Unobvious wrote:
This guy's got a good point. He can be the only entrant is a race and it is still legit. Why not? He's right, it really doesn't affect anybody. Why would anyone care what someone else did on their own watch? If I went out and ran 10 miles today, then told you I ran 20, or told you I ran 5, what difference does it make? No one really knows, and it doesn't matter at all. No one else's life will change one iota either way.
Why does it matter? Two reasons:
1. He was allegedly raising money by running in marathons and passing other participants. By creating fake events, he's essentially committing fraud by soliciting money for events/participants that don't exist. Is a race truly a race if you're the only one running? Of course it isn't.
2. Kip is portraying himself as an ethical, honest man. Ethical, honest men do not make up fake events. It casts doubt on every other explanation for his other irregularities. His explanation for the race in Wyoming, although ridiculous, is plausible. However, any explanation he can give for the other two races would not pass the smell test. How do you put yourself third in a race if you are the only participant?
Greg Meyer wrote:
rupp-certified saladbar wrote:1. MADE UP a race that didn't exist. BUILT A WEBSITE AND INSERTED FAKE RESULTS for this fake race.
1) previously addressed, but the race was not "made up". There was a web site to pre register, which a dozen or so did. There was a woman for on site reg and course maps. Just because no one else showed up doesn't mean Kip couldn't run. There is nothing illegal about being the only participant in a race. He should not have allowed his friend to add names to the results, but he copped to this right from the beginning. Despite being improper, this actually had absolutely no effect on anyone. If the names were not added, would all you conspiracy theorists still be critcising this race? This entire event affected nobody, and yet Kip was completely honest about it.
My best attempt at a summary of this unintentionally hilarious troll post on an unintentionally hilarious troll thread:
The race 'was not "made up"' although Kip was the only runner on the course and his 'friend' improperly added names to the results (which were posted online, to the race website, by this same friend apparently).
[The (totally rational) assumption here is that the race director and team of volunteers staffed a three hour 26mi race with aid stations and timing for one person].
Then, 'despite being improper' (making up results for a bunch of people that didn't run in the otherwise totally legitimate marathon with one participant), the end result was that all of this had no net effect on anyone! This includes any accountability or negative associations for the guy that made it all up (along with his 'friend'). In conclusion, any criticism is un-warranted because the net effect on anyone other than the guy that fabricated and lied about the whole thing is zero, not to mention that the guy who made this all up 'was completely honest about it'! This is therefore an unfair witch hunt (including the writers and editors of NY Magazine) on a guy unlucky enough to have run solo in an obscure small town marathon nobody has ever heard of (that he had to travel 1500mi to compete in) and equally unlucky that his 'friend' chronicled the event in an unauthorized and fantastic way that never occurred (on the event website). Case closed and good day sir! I said GOOD DAY!!
In regards to the importance of making up races/results to the overall health of humanity, I agree. Doesn't really matter. World keeps turning.
As it relates to the issue of whether Kip is a habitual liar and cheat, it matters a great deal. It shows that he was willing to fabricate results rather than be honest. In turn, this supports the other allegations of cheating. And again, he did this multiple times.
A lot of people run a race to see who is fastest. I run to see which has the most short cuts.
NO, the point is NOT just that race, it's over a dozen other ones, with real people in them who actually ran the whole race. If you're still lost, then sadly you are hopeless.
In addition, you have the same IP Mr Unobvious as the guy who you are complimenting. How can that be? Do you really think that highly of yourself?
Greg Meyer wrote:
[quote]rupp-certified saladbar wrote:
[quote]New Jorker wrote:
Kip Litton is innocent- look what you did to him.
1. MADE UP a race that didn't exist. BUILT A WEBSITE AND INSERTED FAKE RESULTS for this fake race.
2. CHANGED SHOES in the middle of a race.
3. CHANGED SHORTS in the middle of another race.
4. HID RACE NUMBER in dozens of races.
5. STARTED RACE FIVE MINUTES AFTER THE GUN in dozens of races.
All with no explanation.
1) previously addressed, but the race was not "made up". There was a web site to pre register, which a dozen or so did. There was a woman for on site reg and course maps. Just because no one else showed up doesn't mean Kip couldn't run. There is nothing illegal about being the only participant in a race. He should not have allowed his friend to add names to the results, but he copped to this right from the beginning. Despite being improper, this actually had absolutely no effect on anyone. If the names were not added, would all you conspiracy theorists still be critcising this race? This entire event affected nobody, and yet Kip was completely honest about it.
2) previously addressed but in all his races there was only one shoe change and it was because Kip was warming up in his trainers and didn't have time to retrieve them before the gun went off. He started the race and a couple minutes later when he got to his racers, he stopped & changed (maybe 25 secs?) during the race in front of other runners. No big deal.
3) previously addressed, but there was never any change of clothing or shorts. As the races progressed he simply removed his top layers. Most runners do this.
4) previously addressed but when his bib was on his shorts, his shirts would hang over and obscure the number. Happens to lots of runners.
5) previously addressed but it was part of the fund raising. Do you have ADD?
So see, no cheating, just things that could get twisted to look like other things. You don't have to like him, but at least you now know there was no cheating.
Thank you. This cleared up a few questions I had. The cynics here are way too critical. Kip is obviously getting railroaded by these losers. I just don't know why. He sounds like a good guy. Kip, if you're out there, keep your head up, there will always be people who are so insecure they are hell bent on tearing others down.
Kip, if you're out there, keep your head up, there will always be people who are so insecure they are hell bent on tearing others down.[/quote]
Yep, he's amazing! How dare people railroad such an incredible human being.
With all the photos
video
missed mats
covered up numbers
walking across the finish line
bizarre mat times when he did cross 2 in a row
dark sun glasses
head down low
always with a hat on
over dressing in July
entirely different outfit at the finish
taking the time to discard clothes in a July 10k race (sure)
making up races that don't exist
starting 4 minutes behind in a 5k and pulling off a 17 plus finish time (don't people that fast start on the starting line?)
dodging easy questions
admitting to going off the course in a relay and a 10 miler (only after being caught and questioned)
changing into racing shoes left on the side of the road while warming up in training shoes (that's a funny one)
Yeah, it's all explainable and all things that I've done in many years of racing, NOT!
Gosh, drama queens is right, I feel so insecure.
Enough about the cheating stuff. What I want to know is what is kip's training like these days? Does he have any hobbies outside of running? Favorite TV show?