Kimetto 150 mpw. Ritz 110 mpw, once 120 mpw.

The only error with that post is that the fact that Kimetto runs 150 mpw doesn't mean that he runs long runs above 26 miles. I'm sure this COULD be the case, but not what was stated.

With that said, I agree with you. I think in Ritz's case it doesn't work because he only has an 8-week window to go from being a 13:10 5,000m runner to a 2:06 marathoner. Not sure how much time he has to run and recover from over-distance.

I'm not convinced it's strength. Nutrition is a huge factor. The marathon is the shortest race where your body starts to run out of glycogen. If you're not an efficient runner enough runner, you're toast. Zersenay Tadese was toast today.

20 Second PR wrote:

I'm not convinced it's strength. Nutrition is a huge factor. The marathon is the shortest race where your body starts to run out of glycogen. If you're not an efficient runner enough runner, you're toast. Zersenay Tadese was toast today.

I'm not a nutritionalist, nor a running-mechanics expert. But if a person usually bonks 3/4 into a 26.2... & they don't run that far in training... With the glycogen, that's even more reason to run that far. In addition to the added strength, the runner can incorporate & perfect correct nutrition, instead of hoping the nutrition works on race day.

I wouldn't expect a guy who runs 4-5 miles/day, to be strong in the last 2K of a 10K. If they are- great. If not, we'd know the problem.

How have you come to this conclusion based on weekly mileage stats? I've read a few high mileage training logs and none of them included regular 26+ mile runs like you seem to be suggesting.

I don't know about Kimmetto. I have read several stories of multiple year commitments to building strength. The most recent example is Kiprotich sharing his own story of training for 5 years after being inspired by Haile. Before that, there was the Paris winner who had done a few years of high mileage.

It seems to work for some but may not be required for all. But look at a guy like Juma Ikangaa. He did 200 mile weeks. Sometime he was awesome, more often he ran slower than Teg or Ritz did today. There is a ton of variability.

Wow. I didn't realise it was that easy.

Ritz runs 40mpw more and he's as good as Kimetto.

There, simple.

he was supposedly treated for a bout of malaria back in July and so his 150mpw was only after this. I don't think Kimetto

is faster than 13:09 and so speed is not a problem for Ritz.

Perhaps 42195m is just not his distance (relative to his 12:58!!!!).

Ho Hum wrote:

How have you come to this conclusion based on weekly mileage stats? I've read a few high mileage training logs and none of them included regular 26+ mile runs...

Well, at least he's 150 mpw, avg'ing 21-22 per day. If our elites do that, I'll take it. Getting to 150 mpw seems a ways off. But given long runs I've read of 24 miles, it'd seem increasing to >26.2 would help address.

How many times do our elites have to bonk badly at 19 miles, to signify a mileage/strength problem? That's my big point?

Yea, I'm pushing "arm chair coaching/running" to a new level. No denying that. But it's what I believe.

ttc wrote:

How many times do our elites have to bonk badly at 19 miles, to signify a mileage/strength problem? That's my big point?

The ? was a typo. Meant period.

Maybe Kimetto's talent is to be more able to sustain that kind of training than Ritz is.

This theory will be tested at NYC when Ryan Vail takes another crack at the distance.

150 miles/week

27:45 10k

13:30 5k

Nowhere near the "talent" of Ritz, but smarter training.

I predict: 2:09:15

20 Second PR wrote:

I'm not convinced it's strength. Nutrition is a huge factor. The marathon is the shortest race where your body starts to run out of glycogen. If you're not an efficient runner enough runner, you're toast. Zersenay Tadese was toast today.

Spot on!

Tadese is the best ever in the half marathon and he too struggles in the full.

ritz is talented but injury prone and salazar has him doing a lot of supplemental work that is likely quite beneficial for shorter races but less so for the marathon. salazar is gunshy about overtraining.

us probably just has a smaller distribution of people with the right phenotype, and can't just burn through those people to see which ones can handle the insane training load many kenyans put on their bodies.

google works well wrote:

The only error with that post is that the fact that Kimetto runs 150 mpw doesn't mean that he runs long runs above 26 miles. I'm sure this COULD be the case, but not what was stated.

With that said, I agree with you. I think in Ritz's case it doesn't work because he only has an 8-week window to go from being a 13:10 5,000m runner to a 2:06 marathoner. Not sure how much time he has to run and recover from over-distance.

Kenyan's and Ethiopians are known for their sophisticated nutrition plans. Alberto Salazar just feeds his athletes ugali.

I ran under 2:40 on ~50 mpw. I bet I could run around 2:15 on 150 mpw. The problem is: I would injure myself.

Some runners are gifted in the sense that they can put in a lot of miles without getting injured. Some don't. We all know Ritz needs to be careful in this regard.

20 Second PR wrote:

I'm not convinced it's strength. Nutrition is a huge factor.

Very true. Salazar keeps his athletes on a conventional wisdom based diet including grains, legumes and dairy. He also only allows lean fish and foul and hardly any red meat.

When Kenyans hunt down an animal, they eat it nose to tail. That's why they don't suffer from malnutrition as much as American runners.

Xfit_guy_the_real_one_1 wrote:

20 Second PR wrote:

I'm not convinced it's strength. Nutrition is a huge factor.

Very true. Salazar keeps his athletes on a conventional wisdom based diet including grains, legumes and dairy. He also only allows lean fish and foul and hardly any red meat.

When Kenyans hunt down an animal, they eat it nose to tail. That's why they don't suffer from malnutrition as much as American runners.

This is funny.

I can assure you these guys hunt down bargains in the super market. They don't sell nose or tail in Giant.

There might be some truth to your idea of very long runs. Canova stated that he recommended Kipsang to get up to 45k on one of his hard long runs instead of his usual 40k. It seemed to work well for Kipsang as he was able to crush that last 10k in Berlin.

sub240 wrote:

I ran under 2:40 on ~50 mpw. I bet I could run around 2:15 on 150 mpw. The problem is: I would injure myself.

Some runners are gifted in the sense that they can put in a lot of miles without getting injured. Some don't. We all know Ritz needs to be careful in this regard.

Surely this is a satirical post. 2:40 on 50 mpw in fact implies that you do not have the potential to run 2:15. No offense. Most of us don't.