Wang Junxia - Was she on peds or was she on PEDs???

wrong line wrote:

You gotta love this thinking that "it was a weak record." Yeah, a weak record that had been set 13 years earlier and has now stood for another 20 years.

Because it stood for a long time doesn't make it a strong record. How many record attempts have their actually been in the past 20 years? Women's running is known to be much weaker than men's running so it would make sense that records last longer.

Maybe Wang was one in a billion. If she was strong & fit and had the nuts to go 2:02 at 800, who's to say she couldn't hang on for the 3:50? As well, while numerous women ran crazy fast behind her, they are also part of a huge pool and perhaps are just better than most others in the world, plus they had Junxia to chase.

I heard Wang was lazy and collapsed after 5 push-ups before meeting Ma.

I am letsrun wrote:

Or Nenow's American-born 10,000 meter record of 27:20, which stood for 24 years before being obliterated by Solinsky (26:59) and Rupp(26:48).

meb has the record

Let me just say what I know from personal experience.

I ran several sub 3:50 1500m races and even a couple of 3:42's.

I never went out in 42 or faster. Not once.

I could have gone out in 42 and ran 3:50, yes.

But then again, I had a 3:42 PR.

When my PR was 3:52, I once hit the 400 in 59, and then ran 4:00. Mostly it was a bad race, but going out in sub 45 wasn't going to get me 3:50 that year.

So, we're saying the woman that set a record that has now lasted 20 years, could have easily ran much faster, yet never came close to that time again.

And then you have 5 women breaking the world record in the 3000 in one race.

Anyone that has common sense about running has alarm bells going off in their heads and drugs isn't even enough to make sense of it.

I am letsrun wrote:

But wouldn't you agree that what NOP is doing right now is screwing up the integrity of the sport just like the Chinese did? Sure, they are not re-writing record books(even though Farah probably could), but they have finished 1,2,1,1,2,1,1,4 in the last three majors. I dought most east Africans are taking their thyroid and asthma meds, at least right now. And who knows what else legal PED NOP is using that they are choosing not to disclose after seeing the mini backlash they are getting for thyroid meds.

Not being a US citizen or a professional athlete, it is easy for me to say that there should be no such thing as a TUE. It is too difficult to draw the line between curing an illness and gaining an advantage. The thyroid debate had demonstrated it.

I am as puzzled as most people here by the sudden improvement of Mo Farah, and I also feel like he is holding back from running performances a little too eye-popping.

* wrote:

Let me just say what I know from personal experience.

I ran several sub 3:50 1500m races and even a couple of 3:42's.

I never went out in 42 or faster. Not once.

I could have gone out in 42 and ran 3:50, yes.

But then again, I had a 3:42 PR.

When my PR was 3:52, I once hit the 400 in 59, and then ran 4:00. Mostly it was a bad race, but going out in sub 45 wasn't going to get me 3:50 that year.

So, we're saying the woman that set a record that has now lasted 20 years, could have easily ran much faster, yet never came close to that time again.

And then you have 5 women breaking the world record in the 3000 in one race.

Anyone that has common sense about running has alarm bells going off in their heads and drugs isn't even enough to make sense of it.

Plenty of athletes never run faster than their PRs. Bekele was easily capable of running faster in his 5/10k world records but he has yet to do so. Nenow could have run faster, but he didn't and his record stood for years. The same with plenty of other runners and world records.

You make it seem like she was some flash in the pan but she wasn't. She was on top of the world for several years.

Women's running was weak then and still is. It makes sense that a bunch of them broke the record in the same race. It's like how there were a lot more fast 1500s when El G was running. Everyone just followed him and hung on.

You have yet to make a point that makes sense.

greta wrote:

Maybe Wang was one in a billion.

Of course she was one in a billion, everyone from China is. India too.

Wang's times are impressive but if you compare to other WR's they're not out of reach. Here are the calculated Daniels VDOT values for the womens WRs:

1500m: 73

3000m: 74

5000m: 74

10000m: 74

HM: 73

Marathon: 74

Please notice that the 5000m record, which many regard as CLEAN, fits in quite nicely.

wrong line wrote:

You gotta love this thinking that "it was a weak record." Yeah, a weak record that had been set 13 years earlier and has now stood for another 20 years.

Reality Check

2:15:25 / 2:03:38 x 3:26.00 = 3:44.94

The plethora negative attitudes and drug believers repress the real potential of athletics, not only for men but especially for women competitors.

The other guy! wrote:

Wang's times are impressive but if you compare to other WR's they're not out of reach. Here are the calculated Daniels VDOT values for the womens WRs:

1500m: 73

3000m: 74

5000m: 74

10000m: 74

HM: 73

Marathon: 74

Please notice that the 5000m record, which many regard as CLEAN, fits in quite nicely.

What is Daniels' VDOT calculation for completing four performances at that level in six days?

The other guy! wrote:

Wang's times are impressive but if you compare to other WR's they're not out of reach. Here are the calculated Daniels VDOT values for the womens WRs:

1500m: 73

3000m: 74

5000m: 74

10000m: 74

HM: 73

Marathon: 74

Please notice that the 5000m record, which many regard as CLEAN, fits in quite nicely.

Get a new chart. I will grant you that the 5000m record is in the range of the 10000m record, but the 1500m and 3000m records are on a different level. What Wang did that day would be like a man running back-to-back 3:35 1500m runs. The only way a new 3000m record will be set is by rescinding that one.

14:11 is worth 8:05 so the 5000m WR should be considered stronger than the 3000m WR.

On a related note, the 5000m WR is worth 29:27, so it is slightly better than the 10000m WR, as well.

They're all close together though.

The only real outlier is Paulas 2:15:25.

ieie wrote:

Plenty of athletes never run faster than their PRs. Bekele was easily capable of running faster in his 5/10k world records but he has yet to do so. Nenow could have run faster, but he didn't and his record stood for years. The same with plenty of other runners and world records.

You make it seem like she was some flash in the pan but she wasn't. She was on top of the world for several years.

Women's running was weak then and still is. It makes sense that a bunch of them broke the record in the same race. It's like how there were a lot more fast 1500s when El G was running. Everyone just followed him and hung on.

You have yet to make a point that makes sense.

OK, you're trolling to keep this fantasy going. That's OK.

In all of his years running, El G pulled exactly two people to top 5 times - Lagat and Ngeny.

Morceli's PR came before El G and Kiprop and Farah ran the 4th and 6th best times ever this year.

He certainly didn't pull 4 people to a sub 3:30 in a race.

(He did pull 2 with him)

Yes, Qu was on top for several years. Sort of. That should give her a big sample size.

She ran fast in 1992, 1993 (WR) and 1997. What happened the three years in the middle?

But her best time outside of China is 3:57.

And you are saying her 3:50 was an under performance and she had the ability to run much faster.

And the three other women that broke the 3000 WR have nothing else on their resume.

Linli Zhang: 1992- 8:46; 1993- 8:16; No world class times after that or in other track distances

Liyan Ma: 1993- 8:19; no other elite times at all before or since on the track

Lirong Zhang: 1992- 8:48; 1993- 8:21; that's it

I have never seen one person that set a world record without having some other good results around it, let alone three in a race.

Even Bob Beamon was still the favorite to win the 1968 Olympics and had a wind-aided jump that exceeded the world record before his monster jump in Mexico City.

You just don't come out of nowhere to break a world record and disappear.

And it's even more damning for Wang and Qu that had several fast years without approaching those times elsewhere.

Doesn't pass the sniff rest. It's garbage.

J.R. wrote:

2:15:25 / 2:03:38 x 3:26.00 = 3:44.94

(You probably mean 3:45.94.)

Why would that ratio apply to all distances?

If we calculate the extra time for the women, comparing world records, we get:

1500m: 11.9%

3000m: 10.3%

5000m: 12.4%

10000m: 12.3%

Half marathon: 12.8%

Marathon: 9.5%

The 3000m and marathon seem to be the anomalies.

* wrote:

You have yet to make a point that makes sense.

OK, you're trolling to keep this fantasy going. That's OK.

In all of his years running, El G pulled exactly two people to top 5 times - Lagat and Ngeny.

Morceli's PR came before El G and Kiprop and Farah ran the 4th and 6th best times ever this year.

He certainly didn't pull 4 people to a sub 3:30 in a race.

(He did pull 2 with him)

Yes, Qu was on top for several years. Sort of. That should give her a big sample size.

She ran fast in 1992, 1993 (WR) and 1997. What happened the three years in the middle?

But her best time outside of China is 3:57.

And you are saying her 3:50 was an under performance and she had the ability to run much faster.

And the three other women that broke the 3000 WR have nothing else on their resume.

Linli Zhang: 1992- 8:46; 1993- 8:16; No world class times after that or in other track distances

Liyan Ma: 1993- 8:19; no other elite times at all before or since on the track

Lirong Zhang: 1992- 8:48; 1993- 8:21; that's it

I have never seen one person that set a world record without having some other good results around it, let alone three in a race.

Even Bob Beamon was still the favorite to win the 1968 Olympics and had a wind-aided jump that exceeded the world record before his monster jump in Mexico City.

You just don't come out of nowhere to break a world record and disappear.

And it's even more damning for Wang and Qu that had several fast years without approaching those times elsewhere.

Doesn't pass the sniff rest. It's garbage.[/quote]

You're too concerned with this being a world record. It was a PR. El G pulled plenty of people to their fastest times. Way more than 2 and you know it.

Qu didn't come out of nowhere and break a record and disappear. She was on the scene for years. I said this before.

Again, women's running is weaker than men's. Before the Chinese women, the records were even weaker. Why do you refuse to accept this?

[quote]Stupid comments wrote:

She never tested positive , zero. Neither did Barry Bonds.

Nutella1 wrote:

14:11 is worth 8:05 so the 5000m WR should be considered stronger than the 3000m WR.

On a related note, the 5000m WR is worth 29:27, so it is slightly better than the 10000m WR, as well.

They're all close together though.

The only real outlier is Paulas 2:15:25.

What chart is that?

14:11 is worth around 8:15 for 3000m - which is believable.

ieie wrote:

You're too concerned with this being a world record. It was a PR. El G pulled plenty of people to their fastest times. Way more than 2 and you know it.

Qu didn't come out of nowhere and break a record and disappear. She was on the scene for years. I said this before.

Again, women's running is weaker than men's. Before the Chinese women, the records were even weaker. Why do you refuse to accept this?

My favorite moment in El G's career was when he ran a 26:35 10k two days before setting his 1500 WR, and the 7:20 3k he ran the next day... and the day after that. I also appreciated the 2:07 marathon he ran earlier that season.

Oh wait, that's clearly insane and impossible.